Well, help! LOL Cornell says this is a female Baltimore Oriole, and Audubon says this is a 1st yr. male Baltimore Oriole. I also have a mature male at the oranges, and sometimes they eat together, which tells me this other one must be a female. Anyhow, I am doing the Baltimore Oriole watch and really need to know what I have. So...what do YOU guys think the second picture is...immature male, or a female? Some of my books, like Stokes book on Orioles point to this being a female. Peterson says it is an immature male. Anyone got a Sibley's on them?
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First year male, or female Baltimore Oriole? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Lady19thC
- Start date
Are you all stumped? LOL I see people are looking at my post, but no responses! I just resent more pics to Audubon and got letters from three of their people. All three say it is a female-one admits to being in the "ozone" and identifying it incorrectly, the other day! Anyhow, I have a pair, and the male just sat in my front maple, looking about and singing his heart out! They have claimed my yard for their own! Time to go change the oranges!
I take it this isn't the same bird you posted about a few days ago: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=33649
I think I'm going to have to keep out of this one, but you should be getting more replies soon as your compatriots come online this evening.
I think I'm going to have to keep out of this one, but you should be getting more replies soon as your compatriots come online this evening.
JANJ
Well-known member
First year male or female Baltimore Oriole? Well, that may not be that easy to determine. Firstly, it would be a good thing to try and age the bird. Adult Baltimore has a complete moult after the breeding season (definitive pre-basic moult) There seems to be no evidence of pre-breeding moult (pre-alternate), thus any change in spring plumage is by wear. The moult to 1st winter (1st basic) is partial and does not include wings and tail, so therefore they will have more worn and bleached wings by spring,as opposed to adults fresher more blackis looking wing. There are variation, as some 1st summers (1st alternate) moult some outer primaries, witch will create a contrast between new an old feathers, and any contrast will tell a 1st summer/alternate from an adult. Looking at your photo there seems to be a slight contrast between darker, blacker (moulted) tertials and an browner (unmoulted) primaries.This I´m not sure about, from single photo. could be light. A look at the tail feathers may also be of value as an age determination, and som central feathers seems to have a pointed tips, which is indicative of a non adult as adults have rounded tips and less wear. Again, hard to be sure from photo! In any case, a 1st summer/alternate would probably be more worn in wings than your bird, so my guess (a guess is what it is) would be an ad female. It seems as 1st summer/alternate male and female are sometimes not safely seperable in the field. There´s lot´s of variation. Very nice birds and photos!
JanJ
JanJ
JANJ
Well-known member
Hi BT!
There are a lot of books and birding journals. There is: Identification Guide to North American Passerines(for ringers) by Pyle, Howell,Yunick and DeSante, I have seen an ID article in Birding, I think it was the August 1998 issue, on The ID of Female and immature Baltimore and Bullock´s oriole.There is a fairly new book, New World Blackbirds by Alvaro Jaramillo and Peter Burke. Thats a start if you like.
Regards JanJ
There are a lot of books and birding journals. There is: Identification Guide to North American Passerines(for ringers) by Pyle, Howell,Yunick and DeSante, I have seen an ID article in Birding, I think it was the August 1998 issue, on The ID of Female and immature Baltimore and Bullock´s oriole.There is a fairly new book, New World Blackbirds by Alvaro Jaramillo and Peter Burke. Thats a start if you like.
Regards JanJ
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Larry Lade
Moderator
I, too, looked at the August 1998 issue of "Birding" magazine, in which was an article concerning Bullock's and Baltimore Orioles. It goes into quite a bit of detail about telling the two species apart and also how to determine the immature male from the adult female. From what I could gather, your bird would appear to be an adult female Baltimore Oriole.
If you can get your hands on a copy of this article (from some birding friend who is an American Birding Association (ABA) member or perhaps at your local library) it would be something you could study and perhaps make you feel more confident in identifing these birds.
*Note: "Birding" is the official magazine of the American Birding Association.
If you can get your hands on a copy of this article (from some birding friend who is an American Birding Association (ABA) member or perhaps at your local library) it would be something you could study and perhaps make you feel more confident in identifing these birds.
*Note: "Birding" is the official magazine of the American Birding Association.
Thank you, all! I will definitely look for that article and copy it. Birding is big around here, in MA, so I bet I will find it in my library, or one nearby. Stokes Oriole Book also has quite a lot about identifying orioles, and that was how I came to the conclusion it was a female B.Oriole before either Cornell or Audubon had responded. Thank goodness for excellent birding books!
JANJ
Well-known member
Niels is right, it is a Baltimore Oriole, probably a 1st summer/alternate female, du to obvious moult contrast between older, worn primaries and newer fresher looking greater coverts and two new tertials in nearest side in pic.1. Also tips of tail feathers looks pointed and worn. There is also a new (blacker) primary or secondarie, well seen in pic.1
JanJ
JanJ
JANJ
Well-known member
Lady19thC said:
Well Lady, that´s the way it is with birds, never a simple thing! Maybe a male thing to dig around, and into things. I could have said female Baltimore, settled! Is that what you have wanted? As it turns out, not always easy to determine! So then comes the birding lingo....as I´m sure you know.
Anyway, very nice images of Baltimore Orioles you have taken!
JanJ
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Larry Lade
Moderator
To me the first bird looks like a Baltimore Oriole and the second like an Orchard Oriole. The feeder itself looks larger in second photo meaning greater magnification and photo taken at a shorter distance than the first. This would also mean that the 2nd oriole is quite a bit smaller than the first. The yellowish color indicates to me Orchard Oriole plus I can seem to make out darker coloration of the secondaries at the proximal end. I believe the Baltimore would not be this yellow.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Except those are the exact same birds. The sun went in and out, the feeder twirled in the wind, and when the bird stretched out to eat, she looked paler. I was also fooling around with the zoom lens, as I was using a digitial camera (Olympus 340 10x) as well as the digital zoom, and knew it can get a bit grainy if I zoom in too close. I have been looking at various bird books, and the one thing that makes me pretty sure this is not an Orchard Oriole, at this point, is that the beak is not curved. I have about 15 pictures of this bird, now, and her beak is definitely straight. Pictures of the Orchard Orioles seem to show a curved beak. Does this sound right?
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Larry Lade
Moderator
Well, if you say it is the same bird, I guess I will have to take your word! The orange and grass do look lighter.
One troublesome point for me is that the bird on the left seems to have worn, rounded tips on the tail feathers and the bird on the right photo seems to have fresh, pointed tips on its tail feathers.
One troublesome point for me is that the bird on the left seems to have worn, rounded tips on the tail feathers and the bird on the right photo seems to have fresh, pointed tips on its tail feathers.
