Field guides in the future (1 Viewer)

[pppppvvvv]

It's funny you mention that.
Last weekend I made a point of going on a long dog walk, with binoculars.
A couple, birdwatching, called over to me asking "are you birdwatching? Or ebirding?"
I was actually posting a sparrowhawk in ebird as they spoke, so joyously shouted back "I'm ebirding!" (Thinking, why did I say that!). They replied, "so are we". Presumably they set off on their walk looking at my freshly posted checklist. This wasn't a reserve or anywhere particularly bird rich. So we are all becoming humanoid ebirders!

 

[Mysticete]

I would think sound analysis software would be especially useful for sorting out the crossbill types. I don't know if I would want to use it for general birding though. At some point if everthing become too automated, where is the fun in actually going out?

 

[pppppvvvv]

I would think sound analysis software would be especially useful for sorting out the crossbill types. I don't know if I would want to use it for general birding though. At some point if everthing become too automated, where is the fun in actually going out?

It could be just like real time twitching... "There is a Treecreeper within earshot", if birdnet was to be believed this morning. (I didn't see one. I didn't hear one either!)

 

[jurek]

You realised I was talking about visual? Like the Merlin App etc in real time. Could probably zoom in and id things at further range than a human ... knowledge, probabilities, jizz etc

Ah. However I also tried Merlin app with some online photos. Simple colorful birds like a swimming Shelduck on blue water - ok. Brown birds were hopelessly poor. A Chiffchaff photo returned all small warblers as possibilities. An unsharp photo of a bird hidden behind several grass stems - Merlin could not find the bird at all.

I guess the problem is the same - somebody did not point any clues to software, and hoped it develops everything by itself. And the software reached its limit. It could be better done with more structured learning. First, a software looking for bird shape. This works quite well, even humorously well*. Field marks could be lifted from bird identification books, which is quite easy text processing. Once the image would be divided into bill, head, wing coverts etc., these could be matched to colors and patterns. Such a program is absolutely within current technology.

Such program might be even better than a birder. For example, it could ID birds against the sun and in deep shade. It would ID moving birds as easily as standing birds - for example see a precise pattern of wings of a flying bird. It could measure shape precisely - no problem with eg. raptor silhoulettes. It might even look for precise patterns and find camouflaged bitterns, nightjars and woodcocks.

The main problem is lots of work for little money - birders are not the market the size of e.g. Facebook cat photos.

*https://www.businessinsider.com/the...network-that-was-taught-to-look-for-animals-1

 

[Andy Adcock]

I would think sound analysis software would be especially useful for sorting out the crossbill types. I don't know if I would want to use it for general birding though. At some point if everthing become too automated, where is the fun in actually going out?

We may as well all stay home and tick the birds we see on tv if apps like Merlin, evolve to the point where we don't need to learn anything about ID.

 

[jurek]

If these automatic methods will really be implemented (but may not be, given for example the cost of their development):
Then many more people would be drawn to birdwatching, because it is easy.
More experienced people would identify birds themselves. Like I often drive using satellite navigation, but to places I know I use memory. Also IDing birds personally would remain a valuable skill, like sale of ready-made meals did not make cooking skills extinct.
I would myself welcome an app where I can point at a plant and ID it. Tell whatever you wish, but I cannot learn all plants in addition to birds.

 

[lmans66]

I can just see birding in the future....we will have our 'phones' of course as what else is needed in many cases? We will have cameras (much like Swaro's digital binoculars) installed on our phones as an accessory. We will have our wireless Apple Earbuds in our heads and have our birding app installed on the phone.

We will be walking down a path.

We will point our phone at some movement in a tree or sky, and then listen to the Apple App tell us what we just saw. The app will be connected to e-bird, which will also be connected to a 'digital check-list' so we can keep track of what the phone saw.

Perhaps some refuges could have fake bird icons in place to give the phone a thrill every once in a while as we 'round a bend'. The phone would pick up a bar-code on the fake icon which could then ID the fake bird.

For added enjoyment, some refuges could have 'rent a drone' ....where you can stay in the lounge or coffee shop (outside due to COVID) and the drone will do the 'walking for us'. You can direct the drone via your "phone app' and the drone will fly to where you want it to to locate the birds.

....fun.....

 

[njlarsen]

I am not sure if I am serious, but there could be a situation where I would want the drone. Being in a tower of a complex wetland, half a mile out there is a little island with something on it that you cannot quite identify using the scope. Send out the drone and take a look to confirm or deny the rarity you are dreaming it might be.

Niels

 

[DMW]

I've just returned from a birding trip to Mexico and have to say that using the Merlin app was a revelation. We brought along the Howell field guide (approximately the size and weight of a concrete block) and the big Sibley guide to NA, but both are too large to take out in the field, and we rarely found ourselves referring to either.

The Merlin app isn't perfect, but the basic structure is in place and it's easy to see how it can be refined and updated incrementally to be truly excellent.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I've just returned from a birding trip to Mexico and have to say that using the Merlin app was a revelation. We brought along the Howell field guide (approximately the size and weight of a concrete block) and the big Sibley guide to NA, but both are too large to take out in the field, and we rarely found ourselves referring to either.

The Merlin app isn't perfect, but the basic structure is in place and it's easy to see how it can be refined and updated incrementally to be truly excellent.

Reducing birding to the level of writing train numbers down.

 

[Butty]

Not at all - as I think Mr W was talking about using Merlin purely as a field guide, which is its non-AI non-trainspotter alternative function. And, when the options in Mex are either Howell or van Perlo, I can see the attractions.

 

[DMW]

Not at all - as I think Mr W was talking about using Merlin purely as a field guide, which is it's non-AI non-trainspotter alternative function. And, when the options in Mex are either Howell or van Perlo, I can see the attractions.

Correct, we used it exclusively as a field guide.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I've just returned from a birding trip to Mexico and have to say that using the Merlin app was a revelation. We brought along the Howell field guide (approximately the size and weight of a concrete block) and the big Sibley guide to NA, but both are too large to take out in the field, and we rarely found ourselves referring to either.

The Merlin app isn't perfect, but the basic structure is in place and it's easy to see how it can be refined and updated incrementally to be truly excellent.

I did the same in Mexico recently, with the Sibley app getting some use for migrants. I took three field guides (van Perlo, Howell & Webb, Vallely & Dyer) but barely opened them. I guess at some stage Merlin will incorporate the HBW illustrations and text too, which will make it probably one of the best all round field guides in most parts of the world. If live Ebird data can be included, that will add to the attraction. The very good recordings, together with sonograms, are a particularly strong feature.

 

[DMW]

Reducing birding to the level of writing train numbers down.

Why don't you do some research before commenting? Download the Merlin app (free) and then download a pack for a given region (we had the NW Mexico and W Mexico packs) to use offline (also free). Then use it exclusively in the "Explore birds" option.

What you will find is this:
Thumbnails of different 'families' of birds (raptors, hummers, herons etc) for quick reference.
Click on the relevant thumbnail and you get thumbnails of all species in that 'family'.
Scroll through these for a likely candidate species, and click on this.
You then get a set of generally excellent photos of various plumage and subspecies where relevant, generally superb sound recordings, and a very detailed range map far superior to anything in paper guides.

 

[Butty]

I guess at some stage Merlin will incorporate the HBW illustrations and text too

That's a resource that HBW created at huge expense, and that they now can/will/do make money from. It won't be given away.

 

[DMW]

I did the same in Mexico recently, with the Sibley app getting some use for migrants. I took three field guides (van Perlo, Howell & Webb, Vallely & Dyer) but barely opened them. I guess at some stage Merlin will incorporate the HBW illustrations and text too, which will make it probably one of the best all round field guides in most parts of the world. If live Ebird data can be included, that will add to the attraction. The very good recordings, together with sonograms, are a particularly strong feature.

My own view is that the way forward is to use annotated photos. Cornell seems to be crowd-sourcing Merlin with requests for submission of photos, recordings, and text by birders with relevant expertise. I believe Steve Howell wrote much of the text for Mexico, and Andrew Spencer's recordings are spectacularly good.

Live use of ebird records would require a phone signal (often unavailable at many sites). I can see the potential benefit, but if you have signal you could refer to it anyway.

 

[etudiant]

If these automatic methods will really be implemented (but may not be, given for example the cost of their development):
Then many more people would be drawn to birdwatching, because it is easy.
More experienced people would identify birds themselves. Like I often drive using satellite navigation, but to places I know I use memory. Also IDing birds personally would remain a valuable skill, like sale of ready-made meals did not make cooking skills extinct.
I would myself welcome an app where I can point at a plant and ID it. Tell whatever you wish, but I cannot learn all plants in addition to birds.

I can't learn plants at all, despite repeated effort, but have found Inaturalist (www.inaturalist.org) gets me at least somewhere close.
The app covers much of nature, not only plants, but also birds, mammals, insects etc. It is freely available on Android and works quite well here in NYC.
Downside is that I think it needs internet access to function, as the actual download is tiny even compared to Collins.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

My own view is that the way forward is to use annotated photos. Cornell seems to be crowd-sourcing Merlin with requests for submission of photos, recordings, and text by birders with relevant expertise. I believe Steve Howell wrote much of the text for Mexico, and Andrew Spencer's recordings are spectacularly good.

Live use of ebird records would require a phone signal (often unavailable at many sites). I can see the potential benefit, but if you have signal you could refer to it anyway.

Annotated photos would certainly be a very good development and perhaps relatively easy to do. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to download an updated Ebird map on a regular basis so that it's available even when you're offline. Live information could be available when you have a signal. This is kind of how things like Google Maps work for navigation i.e. you can download a map that you can also update regularly and, if you have a signal, you get live information e.g. about traffic conditions. Given that Ebird maps are based on Google Maps, I don't see how they couldn't be made available in a similar way.

I'm aware that the HBW stuff was produced at great expense and probably won't be available for free just yet but there will come a time when it isn't going to make anyone a lot more money and could be made available more cheaply or freely. BWP was produced at great expense but then then the books got cheaper, turned into a CD-ROM that didn't cost a lot and nowadays probably aren't worth a huge amount to either the publisher or anyone trying to sell old volumes. The same process will probably happen with HBW (and I would say already is, since the info is available online at a vastly lower cost than the original volumes).

 

[DMW]

Annotated photos would certainly be a very good development and perhaps relatively easy to do. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to download an updated Ebird map on a regular basis so that it's available even when you're offline. Live information could be available when you have a signal. This is kind of how things like Google Maps work for navigation i.e. you can download a map that you can also update regularly and, if you have a signal, you get live information e.g. about traffic conditions. Given that Ebird maps are based on Google Maps, I don't see how they couldn't be made available in a similar way.

I'm aware that the HBW stuff was produced at great expense and probably won't be available for free just yet but there will come a time when it isn't going to make anyone a lot more money and could be made available more cheaply or freely. BWP was produced at great expense but then then the books got cheaper, turned into a CD-ROM that didn't cost a lot and nowadays probably aren't worth a huge amount to either the publisher or anyone trying to sell old volumes. The same process will probably happen with HBW (and I would say already is, since the info is available online at a vastly lower cost than the original volumes).

I agree with this, and I think there are various ways Cornell could usefully link ebird into Merlin. It will be very interesting to see how Merlin develops in the near future.

 

[dantheman]

I can just see birding in the future....we will have our 'phones' of course as what else is needed in many cases? We will have cameras (much like Swaro's digital binoculars) installed on our phones as an accessory. We will have our wireless Apple Earbuds in our heads and have our birding app installed on the phone.

We will be walking down a path.

We will point our phone at some movement in a tree or sky, and then listen to the Apple App tell us what we just saw. The app will be connected to e-bird, which will also be connected to a 'digital check-list' so we can keep track of what the phone saw.

Perhaps some refuges could have fake bird icons in place to give the phone a thrill every once in a while as we 'round a bend'. The phone would pick up a bar-code on the fake icon which could then ID the fake bird.

For added enjoyment, some refuges could have 'rent a drone' ....where you can stay in the lounge or coffee shop (outside due to COVID) and the drone will do the 'walking for us'. You can direct the drone via your "phone app' and the drone will fly to where you want it to to locate the birds.

....fun.....

Or for 'phones' read 'contact lenses'?? (that may be a little farther into the future)