Does anyone not keep a life list? (2 Viewers)

[Jos Stratford]

Thought for the day, "what is more valuable: 1 million sightings in the head of 1 person, or 1 sighting visible to 1 million people?

The first 👍

 

[Steve Babbs]

Only tenuously linked to Life lists, and I am a broken record here, but:

Thought for the day, "what is more valuable: 1 million sightings in the head of 1 person, or 1 sighting visible to 1 million people?

Get them on ebird

I never said I didn't do that. I certainly have if it's a rarely visited or ' new' site.

 

[spoonily]

I think I'm going to stop keeping track of things (checklists, life lists, highlights in field guides) until October and just see how it feels. I'm gonna be going to Vietnam in October, so guess we'll see if I keep track of all the birds I see there or not haha

Just wanna see what it feels like when I get rid of all potentially competitive things out of bird watching, I'm hoping it means I pick places to visit based on how fun I think they'll be, and also lower my expectations and result in some fun surprises!

 

[BogBean]

I never said I didn't do that. I certainly have if it's a rarely visited or ' new' site.

What I'm thinking is, you, and Jos, and me, and others have a whole wealth of "life list"/records going back 20 or 30 years or more. No one else can go back in time and collect this data no matter how many hundreds of thousands are eagerly entering stuff on ebird. And this data probably tells us more about the direction bird populations are going than anything else.

It's a shame if they only live in paper form, and trying not to sound really depressing will eventually be lost.

But we all know the journey from paper records to digital/citizen science projects is very arduous and a total pain.

 

[SlowLowFlyingTurkey]

What I'm thinking is, you, and Jos, and me, and others have a whole wealth of "life list"/records going back 20 or 30 years or more. No one else can go back in time and collect this data no matter how many hundreds of thousands are eagerly entering stuff on ebird. And this data probably tells us more about the direction bird populations are going that anything else.

It's a shame if they only live in paper form, and trying not to sound really depressing will eventually be lost.

But we all know the journey from paper records to digital/citizen science projects is a total pain.

A couple of years ago I put all my UK records onto Birdtrack for exactly that reason. My notebooks go back to 1984 and every outing has the date, start and finish times, weather, and a complete list, which is exactly what Birdtrack wants.

I intend to put them on ebird as well at some point, as well as my international lists, but it took so long to do Birdtrack that I keep putting it off. I use ebird hotspots a lot when planning foreign trips, so I feel I should give something back.

 

[kb57]

I don't equate keeping a year list, life list or country list with being competitive - at least not with other people. With my year list, I'm definitely being competitive with myself, challenging myself to get out birding more often, and in the process see more species, more frequently than before.

 

[Steve Babbs]

I'm hoping it means I pick places to visit based on how fun I think they'll be, and also lower my expectations and result in some fun surprises!

Fun is important. I pick places mainly on things that I really want to see rather than any thought of numbers. E.g. a few years ago I returned to Malaysia, for six weeks, despite the fact that I had previously spent 4 1/2 months there, mostly wildlife watching, and combined mammal and bird ticks was unlikely to surpass 10 but, despite a lot of trying, I'd never seen tapir. I was finally successful and was close to tears!

I'd also never be able to 'justify' a trip to Europe if I was list obsessed and would have missed out on a lot of great experiences plus I'd probably be divorced.

 

[Steve Babbs]

going back 20 or 30 years or more.

Rather scarily 38 years since my first tropical trip at the age of 19. That was seriously roughing it. Far too dude for that now.

 

[Patudo]

I don't keep a list, although I do try to note down all species seen on various trips. I sometimes think it would be interesting to compile everything I've seen, but keep finding it too much of a pain. My focus is almost always trying to see birds doing cool things observe interesting behaviour rather than seeking out lifers etc. If a new species pops up while doing so, it's enjoyable, but incidental.

 

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

Keeping a life list's about the same as train-spotting in my view.

I grant you that knowing what colour the lesser coverts are in a 3rd summer Kumlien's gull may be interesting - but then knowing the piston sequence on a type 38 Fabricant's reciprocating engine may also put you on the top of the heap.

It seems to satisfy many in terms of ascribing ability - so that you can rank yourself alongside other humans.
I knew a guy once who claimed he was in the "top 3 of UK listers". I was supposed to be impressed. He was manic, unhappily so. I suspect his birding was only about listing and that his listing made up for unhappiness, or an unreconcilable inferiority complex.

It's a fairly useless activity - but I don't mean that to be disparaging. I suppose there may be scientific reasons - but I suspect birders who claim they're making contributions to science are really fooling themselves. Unless collections of data can be verified and standardised they can't be used scientifically.

I used to keep a life-list when I was much younger - but then I collected stamps when I was a kid.

But I'm a classical musician - and we're a nerdy bunch and just as weird as birders - but maybe not twitchers ;-)

Peter

 

[Paul Chapman]

The type of topic that generally induces someone to come along and make ill-informed criticisms of other people's choices....

At some point, I will get round to working out my British & Irish Moth List or adding my sightings from a couple of missing trips to my eBird records (Antigua, Florida & Sri Lanka non-birding trips) but such things tend to be less important than seeing something new. Most people care so much about their numbers that they do not know what they are and do not post them anywhere for comparison. In contrast, they do care about seeing something especially something that they have not seen before.

All the best

Paul

 

[earlytorise]

Fun is important. I pick places mainly on things that I really want to see rather than any thought of numbers. E.g. a few years ago I returned to Malaysia, for six weeks, despite the fact that I had previously spent 4 1/2 months there, mostly wildlife watching, and combined mammal and bird ticks was unlikely to surpass 10 but, despite a lot of trying, I'd never seen tapir. I was finally successful and was close to tears!

Could you recommend some logistically easy and cheap mammal excursions? Particularly in Asia. Particularly experiences that aren't famous among tourists.

I haven't made an effort for mammals, only photographing them on a birding trip if I notice them quickly enough. The best mammal in my vacations has been a Large Treeshrew that surprised me on hotel grounds in Sepilok, Sabah, Malaysia. A Western Tarsier during a night walk in Sepilok was also memorable.
Talking to other birders in Sabah, I found out about Kinabatangan River (a bit expensive but not hard to arrange) and Deramakot Forest Reserve (super-duper expensive and remote but it's where all the best mammals are).

I rarely get to speak to a card-carrying mammal-watcher. Cheers!

 

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

The type of topic that generally induces someone to come along and make ill-informed criticisms of other people's choices....

At some point, I will get round to working out my British & Irish Moth List or adding my sightings from a couple of missing trips to my eBird records (Antigua, Florida & Sri Lanka non-birding trips) but such things tend to be less important than seeing something new. Most people care so much about their numbers that they do not know what they are and do not post them for comparison. They tend to care about seeing something especially something that they have not seen before.

All the best

Paul

I forgot that the protecting vulture of twitchers never rests, keeping a beady eye out for anyone who dares to disagree with his creed.
Not all of us treat this back-water life so seriously and no insult was intended.
However, if the ;-) emoji in my post passed you by, Paul, I can send you some lightening up powders if you wish ;-)😜😉

Peter

 

[Steve Babbs]

Could you recommend some logistically easy and cheap mammal excursions? Particularly in Asia. Particularly experiences that aren't famous among tourists.

I haven't made an effort for mammals, only photographing them on a birding trip if I notice them quickly enough. The best mammal in my vacations has been a Large Treeshrew that surprised me on hotel grounds in Sepilok, Sabah, Malaysia. A Western Tarsier during a night walk in Sepilok was also memorable.
Talking to other birders in Sabah, I found out about Kinabatangan River (a bit expensive but not hard to arrange) and Deramakot Forest Reserve (super-duper expensive and remote but it's where all the best mammals are).

I rarely get to speak to a card-carrying mammal-watcher. Cheers!

Yes but away at the moment. Tapir at Taman Negara an obvious one plus plenty of other stuff there although they have now stopped you wandering around on your own. I spent a lot more time in Asia in the 90s so things have changed a lot. 31 years since I was in Sabah.

 

[Steve Babbs]

Could you recommend some logistically easy and cheap mammal excursions? Particularly in Asia. Particularly experiences that aren't famous among tourists.

I haven't made an effort for mammals, only photographing them on a birding trip if I notice them quickly enough. The best mammal in my vacations has been a Large Treeshrew that surprised me on hotel grounds in Sepilok, Sabah, Malaysia. A Western Tarsier during a night walk in Sepilok was also memorable.
Talking to other birders in Sabah, I found out about Kinabatangan River (a bit expensive but not hard to arrange) and Deramakot Forest Reserve (super-duper expensive and remote but it's where all the best mammals are).

I rarely get to speak to a card-carrying mammal-watcher. Cheers!

Actually your best bet is to visit www.mammalwatching.com

 

[Georgebirds]

I didn't keep a life list for the first 30-something years of my life, but would have been able to tell you whether I'd knowingly seen a certain species or not, or gone through a field guide saying 'yes' or 'no' to each one. I could still do that, easily, without needing to check the life list I've written up since. And I know, as soon as I see a new bird (or confirm an uncertain ID later) that I haven't seen it before. Aside from the common birds I've known since early childhood, I could even tell you the exact place I remember seeing each species for the first time, info which isn't on my life list anyway.

So do I really even need this list, when memory's enough? Not at all! But I do like having it - not a necessity, or useful, but interesting, hah. I only decided to compile it about five years ago, from curiosity and for something to do on some grim winter day - before I'd even have considered myself a birder, and didn't know it was a thing people did!

 

[Jos Stratford]

Keeping a life list's about the same as train-spotting in my view.

It's a fairly useless activity

Isn't virtually all birding, as well as everything else from football to doing crosswords in the Sunday Times, fairly useless per se? But who cares, I think almost everyone on this forum goes birding primarily for fun not because it has a use.

In that light, listing and birding are equal

 

[Farnboro John]

If you aren't doing it for fun is it really a hobby? (Discuss with reasons!)

If you are doing it for fun is it anyone's business but yours to decide whether it's worthwhile? (Discuss with reasons!)

If you feel the need to discuss these questions rather than accept the implied premises, do you desperately need a hobby? (Discuss on your own in the bath, reasons or excuses are your own business!)

John

 

[spoonily]

I didn't mean for this thread to be divisive or anything, I was more curious what people's opinions on not listing were since I feel like I only hear about the listing part of it online haha 😅

I really just wanted to share how I felt about it, which is that for me, listing has always been something that causes me a bit of stress whether that's making me feel competitive or making me worry over a tricky ID.

Just this last weekend I was in the southern part of California for a friend's bachelor party, and while I've been the west coast a handful of times, I've never been there since getting into bird watching. This meant that most of the birds I would see on the trip would be new ones for me, but I decided to try the "no checklist or life list" approach, and I gotta say it felt great!

I didn't worry about trying to find birds everywhere I went, and instead I would just wake up a little earlier than everyone else and go bird watching in the driveway. I saw plenty of new stuff and it was nice to just watch them and not worry about updating eBird or a spreadsheet when I got back inside. It was especially nice when I briefly saw a Kingbird that could've been either a Cassin's or Western. Both would've been lifers for me, but I ended up not worrying about it, and I know that otherwise I would've spent the entire weekend trying to figure it out.

I also got surprised by a pair of California Quails walking across the driveway!

I have no issues with those who list and I have no issues with those who don't, I just find that for me personally, this has been the most enjoyable and least stressful way for me to watch birds 😄

 

[Paul Chapman]

Spoonily

A fallacy within polarised positions on this is the belief that "those that list" are not actually spending the majority of their birding time engaged just as you are in general birding. There is no prospect in my normal birding of seeing anything new. My listing does not mean that I do not engage in general birding. Indeed, as time goes by, more of a birder's time is spent birding without any prospect of seeing anything new.

In reality, people generally engage in a mix of birding activities. Numbers fall out of that. Some of those numbers are actively recorded and some not. Different individuals place different priorities on them and indeed, over time, those priorities change for people.

I would encourage you however to contribute your records irrespective of your birding activity. It is a source of some regret to me when I have not always done so and it is a source of regret for those areas of my wildlife watching where I fail to do so.

Other databases are available...

All the best

Paul