D700 replacement???? (2 Viewers)

[Duke Leto]

So Nikon Rumours have a leak that at Photokina 2014 the next FX camera will be launched. Seems its classified as an "Action" camera so can we assume 8fps+ same AF as the D4S & 810 and a 20Mpx + sensor?
Might be worth a look especially if its priced between 810 and 610.

 

[opticoholic]

I don't want to sidetrack this thread or start a hot debate on the merits of DX vs. FX for bird photography, but I'm curious how many others are as disappointed as I am at the prospect of yet another FX body but still no word on a "D9300" or an upgrade for the D7100?

Someday I might get an FX body, but I'm not overly anxious to do it until the advantage for birds is more clear to me. I use a D7100 right now and it works very well. I always say what I need most to improve my photos is NOT a better camera. Rather, I need to get out more often for more opportunities and more practice. But at the same time I know Nikon could offer a significantly better pro DX body--right now--and I'm a hopeless gear-head so I still watch with interest every new Nikon body to see what it has to offer. If a D9300 or D7300 appears with significantly better specs, especially a deeper buffer, I will probably spring for it. Then my D7100 becomes my back-up (and a camera with a different lens mounted for other uses landscape/macro) and I remain a DX shooter for quite a while longer. I figure the D9300 or at least a D7300 will definitely happen before too much longer... it has to doesn't it?--especially if Canon follows through with the 7D MkII announcement for Photokina.

--Dave

 

[Helios]

The only high speed action DSLR currently in Nikon's lineup is the D4s at 5k. A 20MP 8 or 9 fps camera with the latest autofocus and a suitably large buffer at less than half this price would be one that I would definitely look at. But wouldn't this affect sales of their flagship camera?

The much awaited D400 or equivalent would make a lot more sense, especially with the imminent arrival of the Canon 7D mk II.

 

[Vespobuteo]

hopefully less pixels than D810 and better AF than D610,
8 fps and 18MP, ISO 100 - 25600 would be perfect for wildlife,
the mystery is that FF-camera prices are increasing for every new model..
it's something fishy about it.

But a DX camera in a pro-package like the
D300S would be the most tempting,
priced between D7100 and D610

 

[opticoholic]

The only high speed action DSLR currently in Nikon's lineup is the D4s at 5k. A 20MP 8 or 9 fps camera with the latest autofocus and a suitably large buffer at less than half this price would be one that I would definitely look at. But wouldn't this affect sales of their flagship camera?

Yes, I admit even I would consider such a camera, but right now I'm still inclined to keep waiting for a D9300 or D7300. I don't know if I will ever put out $5K for Nikon's flagship FX body, but I think you're right, surely some folks would decide to save money and get the new mid-priced fast FX body instead of the D4s. Nikon is really doubling down with FX, apparently more concerned about maintaining its leadership in the full frame dSLR world than with offering other products that have high customer demand. But maybe guys like me who most want better high-end DX bodies are still fewer than the extra customers gained by broadening the FX options.

Added: I suppose there are lots more "consumer DX" customers jumping to FX all the time, and clearly that's what Nikon wants us to do. I guess once a DX customer switches to FX and pays what the FX bodies cost, they figure they've got you hooked and then you'll eventually buy better FX glass too. I guess I'm waiting for this trend to finally die down and then maybe I'll get my D9300.:-O
--Dave

 

[Vespobuteo]

Yes, I admit even I would consider such a camera, but right now I'm still inclined to keep waiting for a D9300 or D7300. I don't know if I will ever put out $5K for Nikon's flagship FX body, but I think you're right, surely some folks would decide to save money and get the new mid-priced fast FX body instead of the D4s. Nikon is really doubling down with FX, apparently more concerned about maintaining its leadership in the full frame dSLR world than with offering other products that have high customer demand. But maybe guys like me who most want better high-end DX bodies are still fewer than the extra customers gained by broadening the FX options.

Added: I suppose there are lots more "consumer DX" customers jumping to FX all the time, and clearly that's what Nikon wants us to do. I guess once a DX customer switches to FX and pays what the FX bodies cost, they figure they've got you hooked and then you'll eventually buy better FX glass too. I guess I'm waiting for this trend to finally die down and then maybe I'll get my D9300.:-O
--Dave

apparently DX is no longer PRO segment according to Nikon,
thats a shame, and a D400 probably never will see the light,
but I really hope Nikon will reconsider,

Buying a camera with a pro-body* (unless second hand)
means D810 today,
but how many people really need 36MP?

D300S was about half the money, a very reasonable price,

that's a crazy development..

:-C

* complete magnesium housing etc.

 

[JPAC]

Perhaps Nikon think birders will buy an 800mm FL to compensate for the lack of crop?

 

[BillN]

(as we are all becoming more affluent at the "semi pro" end)

I suppose the DX option that Nikon have created is to shoot DX on a D800/D810 with more/the same number of pixels on the "cropped" D800 image than you get on a D7100

Maybe including this as an option on their FX bodies is the sign of the way they are thinking about "pro" DX

They could included a number of cropped sensor image "options" on their FX sensor bodies if they wished, i.e. a Nikon 1 type ? meg x 2.7 cropped image, which would be useful to some

 

[Duke Leto]

My exact thoughts until I bought the 800e. I can shoot anywhere between full frame and DX with no loss of quality. The versatility is superb. Okay it's a little slow but I'm not a speed freak as I hate deleting images. Hand on heart since I bought a D700 and then the D800 I've never reached for my D300.

I've just put up an image on Flickr of a SEO that is about 1/10 of the original image taken on the D800e in 1.2 crop mode. I think it demonstrates why I don't consider a DX body as a necessity
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dukeleto/

 

[Duke Leto]

Back on thread. Let's see what they announce. The next rumour I see is for a possible 200/4 micro replacement. Equally intriguing.

 

[RMWD]

My exact thoughts until I bought the 800e. I can shoot anywhere between full frame and DX with no loss of quality. The versatility is superb. Okay it's a little slow but I'm not a speed freak as I hate deleting images. Hand on heart since I bought a D700 and then the D800 I've never reached for my D300.

I've just put up an image on Flickr of a SEO that is about 1/10 of the original image taken on the D800e in 1.2 crop mode. I think it demonstrates why I don't consider a DX body as a necessity
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dukeleto/

I agree with you Steve. The detail in the crops is excellent. You just don't need a 800mm lens just because the D8xx is FX.
Now the D810 has a useful extra frame per sec and in DX mode with a box 7fps so is no slouch anymore. It also has a a huge buffer and much improved AF including group AF.

I think Nikon have decided that the D810 in the various crop modes is the camera for serious wildlife photography.

 

[Helios]

Problem with the D810 is that with the battery pack for the 7 fps we're talking about 3k, which is twice the price of the D300 and presumably the 7D mk II.

 

[Duke Leto]

According to canon rumours 7d mk2 is going to be 12 fps wow!

 

[Vespobuteo]

I had D800 for 2 years but I sold it,
very good camera in many ways,
But it did not work for me,
shooting mostly birds and wildlife,

the D810 seems a bit more versatile,
but it's still not an action camera, brilliant in the studio but not in sports/action and I think Nikon try to make to much of it.
One cam can't rule them all.

What is missing is more speed, smaller file sizes, 10 FPS, reasonable price (probably means DX, 18MP), extremely good noise handling, top-notch AF, and a light but ergonomic housing large enough to work with gloves.

This cam (D400) would be a perfect complement to a pro photographers D4S or an reachable "next level" camera for the "serious" amateur wild-life photographer.

 

[opticoholic]

According to canon rumours 7d mk2 is going to be 12 fps wow!

I take that as good news. The latest rumored specs on the 7D MkII make it sound like it could be THE current SLR for birds, at least to me. The reason I think it's good news is that (1) it increases the likelihood that Nikon will quickly answer with its own improved DX body, and (2) if Nikon decides not to try to compete with the 7DMkII, then at least there WILL still be a pro option for people like me who think APS-C is the best SLR format for birds... But I won't switch to Canon too fast. That would be a major decision.

And Steve, beautiful photos on your Flickr page!

Dave

 

[Duke Leto]

And Steve, beautiful photos on your Flickr page!

Dave

Cheers Dave and all taken on the D800e for the past year and D700 for a year before that, so I can't agree the you need a DX camera for birds. Or more than 4fps lol

 

[opticoholic]

Cheers Dave and all taken on the D800e for the past year and D700 for a year before that, so I can't agree the you need a DX camera for birds. Or more than 4fps lol

Steve,
I agree with you. You don't need a DX camera for birds. It can be done with FX. But in several years and thousands of frames of shooting DX on wild birds, I have almost never needed to back up to get my shot. And based on that simple truth, I believe DX is a better format than FX, if you wanted to design an ideal camera from scratch to shoot birds. And I'll even go so far as to say that the current D800e shooting in DX mode might sometimes slightly surpass what my D7100 can do. But I'm not convinced the D800e in DX mode "crushes" the D7100. I think they are fairly close (except not in price!). Here are some samples of what I get with my D7100. These are over a year old. I have quite a few newer photos I haven't yet posted. I need to get a new gallery up. Do you think the D800 would have allowed me to do a lot better than this?

There is an optimal DX resolution that would allow the absolute highest image quality, and I'm not sure what that is. 15MP? 20MP? It might still be changing/developing, and it probably varies depending on the light conditions. I don't usually go out and do bird photography under poor light conditions; I avoid bad light because I'm trying for the best images, and I think the best shots are more likely in good light. I will admit I would have a little more flexibility with those high quality FX sensors. But again, I would almost never use the FX part on birds, only the DX part. Maybe pretty soon Nikon will roll out an FX camera that shoots in DX mode clearly way better than the D7100. Maybe that time is now; maybe you will convince me. But the price does matter to me, unfortunately. The D810 is expensive. If this new D710 or whatever it is called has a 24MP sensor, will the DX mode hit that optimal resolution?

Finally, I agree with you that you don't need high fps to get great bird photos. Heck, when you get down to it, maybe you don't need more than a D90 to get great bird photos! Once in a while I do get limited by the small buffer in the D7100, or I think maybe a higher frame rate might have allowed me to get "the money shot." So I think high fps and a deep buffer DO matter, but it's not the main thing keeping me from getting more good shots. Rather, I simply need to get out more often, get more practice and increase my chances for good opportunities. You sure hit those shots of the Red Kite!

--Dave

 

[Duke Leto]

Dave you've got some great shots. A couple of things.
1, I struggled to find any of your shots in poor light as we get in the UK for most of the year. This may have an impact of choice of body you may choose.
2, when I used to use Film n slide the whole world was full frame until low cost DX chips started powering the digital cameras. If technology had been available and cheap enough I've no doubt that DX would never have happened.
3, I don't use DX mode with my cameras, why would I?

IMHO there is still a mindset that believes to get the shot you can't loose the 1.5x benefit, I was the same until I delved in and realised that it's a myth. Kind of like me moving to an imac, took years n years and once I did realised how stupid I was not to do it earlier.

 

[RMWD]

I had D800 for 2 years but I sold it,
very good camera in many ways,
But it did not work for me,
shooting mostly birds and wildlife,

the D810 seems a bit more versatile,
but it's still not an action camera, brilliant in the studio but not in sports/action and I think Nikon try to make to much of it.
One cam can't rule them all.

What is missing is more speed, smaller file sizes, 10 FPS, reasonable price (probably means DX, 18MP), extremely good noise handling, top-notch AF, and a light but ergonomic housing large enough to work with gloves.

This cam (D400) would be a perfect complement to a pro photographers D4S or an reachable "next level" camera for the "serious" amateur wild-life photographer.

Did you see this news article on DPreview showing that the D810 is a pretty good sport camera?
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3094466889/nikon-d810-a-sport-photographers-impressions?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

 

[RMWD]

Problem with the D810 is that with the battery pack for the 7 fps we're talking about 3k, which is twice the price of the D300 and presumably the 7D mk II.

I can't argue with that, though we don't know what price or features canon will put on the 7D Mk2 yet. Nikon still hasn't given any inkling that their best DX camera in the future will be anything other than a D7300 type camera.

Some may move to Canon if there is a large price performance discrepancy but moving costs quite a lot if you have good lenses already.

Even then in the UK there is poor winter light that really gives an advantage to FX cameras like the D810.