Counterpart of Swaro Habicht 8x30W but no porro? (1 Viewer)

[Paultricounty]

Agreed. However, I do wish Swarovski would modernize the Habicht line a bit. Just a bit: Smoother focusing, better baffling in the 8x30, better (rubber) eyecups (similar to the ones Zeiss used in the Dialyts).

I agree totally, refreshing while still keeping with traditional porro design would be wonderful, maybe throw in just wee bit more eye relief.

Agreed. I first noticed this when I got the APM 6x30 last year. Surprising optical and mechanical quality.

Absolutely a fine $200 porro. And these look to me to made at least as well as the Nikon E’s and E2’s. Even the Vortex Diamond Backs are quite good in the center of the field, but they do fall off sharply and with a small sweet spot.
Paul

Hermann

 

[albie...]

Some people seem to judge a binocular's build quality by the thickness of it's armor .

 

[Paultricounty]

Some people seem to judge a binocular's build quality by the thickness of it's armor .

That would seem to be a very limited parameter to me.

 

[gcole]

Try the Meopta MEOSTAR 8X32 often undervalued but just as good as the Leica Ultravis HD-plus 8x32 and for a lower price. (It is not a porro..)
Gijs van Ginkel

I have handled both and liked the Meostar 8x32 more for various reasons and yes the Meostar was half the cost of the Ultravid HD 8x32. I sold my 8x32 Meostar for the 10x version for more power. It still amazes me how Meopta can undercut Leica’s much higher cost and produce Glass equal to or even better in my opinion.

 

[Hermann]

Absolutely a fine $200 porro. And these look to me to made at least as well as the Nikon E’s and E2’s. Even the Vortex Diamond Backs are quite good in the center of the field, but they do fall off sharply and with a small sweet spot.

I spent some more time with the APM 6x30 last week, and what I find shocking is how good its optics are. Quite amazing at that price. Sure, the Habicht 7x42 and the Nikon SE 8x32 are better, but not nearly as much as the price difference would suggest. In fact, the little 6x30 is IMO surely "good enough" for serious birding. And I fully agree, the APM is at least as well made as the Nikon E2. Not as well made as the Habicht though. But that's hardly a surprise.

Hermann

 

[Patudo]

Surprising optical and mechanical quality.

That, in all honesty, shouldn't have been a surprise. The PRC is capable of advanced manufacturing, and a traditional porro binocular is not the most complex piece of machinery/optics out there. The APMs do look quite well made - good to see that impression confirmed. It's unfortunate a lot of birding binoculars from the PRC (that I've seen, anyway) don't have the same build quality.

 

[Paultricounty]

That, in all honesty, shouldn't have been a surprise. The PRC is capable of advanced manufacturing, and a traditional porro binocular is not the most complex piece of machinery/optics out there. The APMs do look quite well made - good to see that impression confirmed. It's unfortunate a lot of birding binoculars from the PRC (that I've seen, anyway) don't have the same build quality.

The APM is very well built by China but I’d assume a lot of that that is the APM QC, I’m amazed at these little beauties.

Unfortunately China is making more and more binoculars very well built , look at options like the Monarch 7’s , Zeiss Terra’s and a whole slew of excellent mid level binoculars. Unfortunately more people will continue and expand sending money to China.

 

[Hermann]

Unfortunately China is making more and more binoculars very well built , look at options like the Monarch 7’s , Zeiss Terra’s and a whole slew of excellent mid level binoculars. Unfortunately more people will continue and expand sending money to China.

Especially if China makes binoculars you can't buy from any other manufacturers. 6x30 porros are quite useful for many puposes, including birding if you habitually carry a scope, but none of the big Western companies make them anymore.

Hermann

 

[Binocollector]

@Hermann
It's not a porro but Maven sells a 6x30 roof prism model. Japanese parts assembled in the US.
But you're right - 6x magnification went out of fashion.
Still the best bino with that magnification that I own, is an old Japanese skeleton bino, 6x25, 11.5° FoV.

 

[eronald]

If you buy something that is from a chinese brand, the money the manufacturer gets is spent on making the product and on QC. If the company has issues they produce cheaper, or fire some staff or cut some products or close shop. The people who sell and the people who make are basically symbiotic, in the same economic zone. As a result the price of the product is directly related to the cost of making it.

If you buy from a European brand pr Apple etc, at least 50% of the money is spent on brand maintenance, marketing staff, and prestige boutiques in developed countries. And often the actual product is anyway mostly made from MIC or MIJ subassemblies because … the guys in the head office decide who they’re gonna pay, and they’re not going to pay totally useless workers who only make stuff.


Reminds me of that staff at an Apple contractor in India who rioted and broke everything in the factory, and got beaten up by the police, because the contractor had been paid by Apple to make stuff cheaply, and the only way to do that at the prices Apple demanded was not pay the employees at all.

Riots at Apple supplier’s India plant cause up to $7 million in damage

Enraged workers reportedly caused millions of dollars in damage at an Apple supplier’s factory in India where they protested poor labor conditions over the weekend. Thousands of contract work…

nypost.com

I recently got myself a low-end Apple phone and another Chinese branded one for my son. The Chinese one cost me less than 1/3 of the price of the Apple and the hardware is way better. It has a decent big screen and it’s much faster, and it even came with a charger and uses standard USB-C connectors. On the other hand that brand doesn’t advertise in Europe, has no lifestyle stores, pays Google for its software and is a healthy engineering-oriented business, while Apple is a US company that continually alleges its competitors steal, forces developers to pay it a percentage of the revenue from every app, and assembles its phones in exactly the same factories as its competitors .

My Apple computer broke down recently, and Apple quoted me a huge price for repair. I said I can go and find the parts and an independent repair shop. Apple employees told me ”even if you swap the parts it won’t work because to use the parts one needs special software which only we are allowed to use”. I think that when companies start to behave like that one is not paying for the product - one is paying for something else, that has perceived value, but not the product itself.


Edmund

 

[Paultricounty]

If you buy something that is from a chinese brand, the money the manufacturer gets is spent on making the product and on QC. If the company has issues they produce cheaper, or fire some staff or cut some products or close shop. The people who sell and the people who make are basically symbiotic, in the same economic zone. As a result the price of the product is directly related to the cost of making it.

If you buy from a European brand pr Apple etc, at least 50% of the money is spent on brand maintenance, marketing staff, and prestige boutiques in developed countries. And often the actual product is anyway mostly made from MIC or MIJ subassemblies because … the guys in the head office decide who they’re gonna pay, and they’re not going to pay totally useless workers who only make stuff.


Reminds me of that staff at an Apple contractor in India who rioted and broke everything in the factory, and got beaten up by the police, because the contractor had been paid by Apple to make stuff cheaply, and the only way to do that at the prices Apple demanded was not pay the employees at all.

Riots at Apple supplier’s India plant cause up to $7 million in damage

Enraged workers reportedly caused millions of dollars in damage at an Apple supplier’s factory in India where they protested poor labor conditions over the weekend. Thousands of contract work…

nypost.com

I recently got myself a low-end Apple phone and another Chinese branded one for my son. The Chinese one cost me less than 1/3 of the price of the Apple and the hardware is way better. It has a decent big screen and it’s much faster, and it even came with a charger and uses standard USB-C connectors. On the other hand that brand doesn’t advertise in Europe, has no lifestyle stores, pays Google for its software and is a healthy engineering-oriented business, while Apple is a US company that continually alleges its competitors steal, forces developers to pay it a percentage of the revenue from every app, and assembles its phones in exactly the same factories as its competitors .

My Apple computer broke down recently, and Apple quoted me a huge price for repair. I said I can go and find the parts and an independent repair shop. Apple employees told me ”even if you swap the parts it won’t work because to use the parts one needs special software which only we are allowed to use”. I think that when companies start to behave like that one is not paying for the product - one is paying for something else, that has perceived value, but not the product itself.


Edmund

The moral of the story is dont buy MIC, or at the very least try to find alternatives. Btw, what is a low end apple phone?

 

[eronald]

The moral of the story is dont buy MIC, or at the very least try to find alternatives. Btw, what is a low end apple phone?

The moral of the story is MIC is usually 2x better value than big-brand MIC. A low end Apple phone is an SE.