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confusing sparrow ID please 5 photos (2 Viewers)

Hi Thayeri

Yes, the last of Royse's birds does appear to be a 1st basic, but surely the age of the penultimate bird should be left indeterminate? The plumage looks adult to me and what corroborative features are there in the pic apart from the plumage that enable any confidence about the age?
 
Hi Thayeri

I've added the link for your CCS, but, unless I've missed something, you weren't citing the undertail coverts as an ID feature, just as a factor affecting perception of the tail.

Jason
 
Hi everybody

I see all of you focusing on swamp or clay-colored sparrow, but my opinion is definitely a LARK Sparrow. I never saw that species nor Clay-colored Sparrw, but the bird here really does not look at all the pictures I saw of clay-colored, and my field experience says me it is no swamp Sparrow. I don't know the age or sex at all, but please see the following points.

1st : the belly is very pale with NO one streak (rules swamp out)
2nd : the malar stripes are black (rules out clay-colored) and well-delimited, contrasting
3rd : the crown is dark brown (rules out clay-colored again)
4th : the supercilium is white but a little pale brown (don't know english word, sorry), that rules out clay-colored (pure white) and swamp (gray)
5th : look at the face on pic4. You have a pale eye-ring, and under it a second half "eye-ring" (see NG), what is typical of lark and that I never saw anywhere else. Moreover, the cheek are plain brown that rules out both other species again. Look at the dark line after the eye also, which is typical of lark and very distinctive. I would say this bird can be identified only with its head pattern.
6th : I recognize tail pattern is quite difficult to see, but maybe is it because this is no pure adult or pure juvenile.

Regards

Guillaume
 
It can't be a Lark Sparrow, due to the following reasons:

- Lark Sparrows are BIG, with big bills and long tails
- Lark Sparrows have bright white outer tail feathers. When you see a Lark Sparrow in the field, this really jumps out at you.
- Lark Sparrows have a bold breast spot
- Lark Sparrows have rusty-brown auriculars and a bright white malar stripe with a black border
 
Here is a Lark Sparrow shot in early November of last year. I've got photos of it going through January but this one is the closest time wise for comparison with the mystery sparrow.
 

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passavy said:
1st : the belly is very pale with NO one streak (rules swamp out)
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a bit of a problem for Swamp. In all Eteune's photos the right-hand side of the breast is overexposed to complete white by the sun. It is difficult to know how much the sun is affecting our perception of the left-hand side of the breast. It may be greyer than it appears in the photos - but it may not. However, the brownish wash to the flanks and the breast are consistent with Royse's photo of the bird in 1st basic plumage (the last photo on the page here: http://www.roysephotos.com/SwampSparrow.html) As I said, I have not seen Swamp Sparrow in the field, so will have to bow to the opinions of those who have.


4th : the supercilium is white but a little pale brown (don't know english word, sorry), that rules out clay-colored (pure white) and swamp (gray)
Click to expand...
"Buff" is the pale brown colour that you were looking for. ;) The colour would be a problem for adult Swamp Sparrow, but we have established that in 1st basic birds it is buffy (see my comment to point 15 in my post #38 on the previous page and, again, Royse's photo).
 
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Bluetail said:
Yes, this is a bit of a problem for Swamp. In all Eteune's photos the right-hand side of the breast is overexposed to complete white by the sun. It is difficult to know how much the sun is affecting our perception of the left-hand side of the breast. It may be greyer than it appears in the photos - but it may not. However, the brownish wash to the flanks and the breast are consistent with Royse's photo of the bird in 1st basic plumage (the last photo on the page here: http://www.roysephotos.com/SwampSparrow.html) As I said, I have not seen Swamp Sparrow in the field, so will have to bow to the opinions of those who have.

"Buff" is the pale brown colour that you were looking for. ;) The colour would be a problem for adult Swamp Sparrow, but we have established that in 1st basic birds it is buffy (see my comment to point 15 in my post #38 on the previous page and, again, Royse's photo).
Click to expand...


As for the white and buffy, essentially unstreaked breast, using a color dropper in Paint Shop Pro, you can see that there is a quick drop of almost 100 points in light intensity (on a scale of 0-255) when you go to the shaded left side, with only a very narrow borderzone between blowout and shade. I see absolutely no reason to suspect the left side of the breast has been changed by some unknown funky light artifact more than any other shaded portion of the image. A large, shaded portion of the breast can be seen very well in the second and fifth photos in particular.

As for the buffy supercilium assertion... what? WHAT? WHAT??? (LOL, ;) )
That goes to the very core of why this bird is not a Swamp Sparrow. Where is the photo of the Swamp Sparrow with an entirely buffy supercilium? Are you contradicting Roger Tory Peterson? :-O
 
Thayeri, I am becoming tired of going round in circles with you on this. I think before you go any further you should address the points already made various posters which clearly indicate to them (and me) that this is a Swamp Sparrow - and which, so far, you have signally avoided doing.
 
Both Thayeri and Brown Creeper have been invaluable Id-ing birds for me in the past so I hope we are all still friends here :)
 
Swamp Sparrow ID reasons

Ok, guys, I've had some good feedback from some very experienced birders in my area as well as an Ornithologist at the Field Museum and they all say Swamp, so I'm going to go with that. Here is what the Ornithologist said:
I looked at your mystery sparrow pictures and the "controversy" on the bird forum. I have to say that in my view, this bird is unquestionably a Swamp Sparrow. To be honest, I am surprised that anybody could suggest Clay-colored. There is no way this is a Clay-colored Sparrow. Bill's too big and not any pinkish, tail is not forked (if you look at underside of tail in the last photo although it looks forked, that is because the inner most tail feathers are slightly separated, you can see that outermost feather is shorter than others, giving a rounded tail), reddish in dark crown stripe, blurry streaking on sides, grayish underparts (Clay-colored would be whitish, except where buffy), etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Several here and elsewhere have indicated it is a juvenile Swamp Sparrow.
thanks again for everyone's efforts, it has been very educational.

Ed
 
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Hi Thayeri, Im sorry if I offended you, you are of course entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. Well done to the original poster for the very good pictures of a live bird and thanks for not sending in a picture of a sparrow from out of a field guide, that of course would make it too easy! 3:)
 
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