Combi Prismatic 7 x 50 Extra Wide Angle. (1 Viewer)

[Scorpius]

Hi everyone. I'm new on BirdForum and a collector of binoculars. A lot of information about binoculars I'm getting from this forum but never registered. Till today. |=)|


I hope that somebody knows more about the Prismatic 7 x 50. I bought it for 15 euros and after a cleaning job (in- and outside) it looks like new. When I saw it on a Dutch selling site I was expecting a very average binocular. Nothing special, only a 7 x 50 wide angle. But after my first look I knew that I was wrong. Optical performance of the Prismatic is pretty good and after a couple days this is already one of my favorite binoculars. It won't leave anymore. A few other binoculars I own are the Nikon 7 x 50IF SP, Swift 7 x 50 Stormking, Ednar 6 x 42, William Optics 10 x 50 ED. The quality of the Prismatic is well enough to put it easily in this list and keep all my other binoculars (23 or 24) behind. One of those is a Carl Zeiss Jena 10 x 50 Jenoptem.

On a Dutch Astronomy forum we came far to find more info about Prismatic. And the most related binocular was a Carton 7 x 50 Audubon. Yes, a Carton Audubon!. http://yumarin7.sakura.ne.jp/retrokan/Carton1974_7.pdf
And I have to say that the Prismatic has many details which are pointing to the older Swift models like the Audubon, Saratoga, Skipper. But there is no Swift exactly the same as the Prismatic.

Some info about the Prismatic. It's a very well build binocular and optics are absolutely impressive. The coatings are simple, just fully coated but one of the best 'normal' fully coatings I have seen so far. Reflections are low. Image is bright, sharp, clear, natural color, high contrast and even the sharpness to the edge is very acceptable if you realize it's an extra wide angle. At night or dusk the Prismatic is still a fine binocular because the image stays sharp and contrast is good The impression of the image is very similar to a Swift 8.5 x 44 Audubon 804. This weekend I hope to test the Prismatic one on one with a Swift Audubon and see if there is a difference in optical quality.


Are there people here who have a similar binocular or can tell me more about the Prismatic 7 x 50 Extra Wide Angle?

 

[Binastro]

. Hi Scorpius, welcome to the forum.

The name Carton is one of the best makes of telescope particularly long focus refractors.
So if the binocular is made by them it should be of the highest quality available at the time it was made.
It does look like a high-quality binocular similar to the Swift, but maybe better.
You mention that it is an extra wide-angle binocular. What is the actual field?

 

[Bencw]

Hi Scorpius, and welcome.

I am afraid I can't tell you much about the brand name combi, apart from being Japanese, made by the Kamakura Koki Co. Ltd. Warabi-Shior. They made another prismatic model, an 8x40, and perhaps more. I believe this company has also made optics for Bushnell, Olympus and Leupold. This is the first 7x50 I have seen. I too am a collector, so thanks for posting, it is a fine looking binocular, a bargain at that price, and it looks very much like a Swift binocular in design, typically Japanese. The Carton looks identical to the Swift Audubon too. Do you have your collection online, in a gallery anywhere, I would be interested to see.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/95019762@N07/
Ben

 

[ceasar]

Carton made some very good porro prism binoculars around 1995 to 2000 or so. Orion sold them in their catalog for a while. They cost in the $250.00 range if I remember correctly. I bought one from that now defunct Pocono Mountain Optics dealer before he went off to Vegas. It was very good.

Bob

 

[Steve C]

That is the doppelganger of the Swift Navigator. It has a very Swift look to it, lots of Swift binoculars have that look. Here is a Navigator from the internet sale site. The binocular looks pretty good, but I dunno about that tablecloth. If it ios optically like those Swifts then it is a find.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231153268089?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Just went back and looked at your picture. I missed it at first but it has a Japanese Mfr code J-B 135 on the tripod adapter, which is Eikosha Sagyojo Co. Ltd. That is one I have not encountered on any other binocular, including any Swift.

Edit: While similar to the Navigator, it is different especially in barrel length. The Swift analogy wouldn't go away so I dug out some of my stuff. I have a Binolux badged 11* 7x35 which as far as I can tell is indeed a dead ringer to the Swift Holiday. That Binolux seems to mirror your Combi, except the Binolux has the Hiyoshi J-B 56. I am of the opinion your 7x50 and my 7x35 would be twins if mine had the extra barrel size needed to become a 7x50.

Now off to see if I have a picture of the Binolux.

 

[Scorpius]

Thanks for the quick replies.

The actual field from the Prismatic 7 x 50 is 10°. By daylight it's usable to the edge. For example this can't be said from a Carton 7 x 50 WA (same as the Chinon Countryman 7 x 50 and Sears Discoverer 7 x 50) I own.

I am afraid I can't tell you much about the brand name combi, apart from being Japanese, made by the Kamakura Koki Co. Ltd. Warabi-Shior.

Interesting. Did you see this on the pictures? Or because you know this. On the pictures it's very difficult to see the JB-code. Indeed the JB-code is JB 133/Kamakura Koki Co. Ltd., Warabi-Shi.

Do you have your collection online, in a gallery anywhere, I would be interested to see.

No, I don't have it online. Not yet. :;

Thank you for the pictures of your binoculars. Nice collection.

@ Steve C, the code is JB 133. But the Combi Prismatic is not a Swift Navigator copy. The Swift that comes very close is a Saratoga. Only that's a 8 x 40.

 

[Steve C]

Thanks for the quick replies.

@ Steve C, the code is JB 133. But the Combi Prismatic is not a Swift Navigator copy. The Swift that comes very close is a Saratoga. Only that's a 8 x 40.

No, as I edited my post it is different, pretty close but different. Close enough it triggered my memory. Another thing that said Swift is the blue and white stripe pattern.

The J-B code is hard to see, but since it is 133, then Kamakura it is . Interesting to note is that Kamakura is still alive and well in the optics world. Most of the old JTTI firms are long gone.

You might see if you can find some collection photos of the Swift Holiday. I can tell you I'd have bought it if I'd found it too.

What is the J- code on the Sears Discoverer? I've never been able to find one on any photos of ones I have seen for sale.

 

[Scorpius]

Thanks for the information.

The JB-code for the Sears/Carton 7 x 35 WA 11° and 7 x 50 WA 10° binoculars are JB-83 (Nakamura Kogaku Kogyo Seisakujo Inc.).

The Cartons are nice looking binoculars. The image in the center is sharp but gets softly very quickly. The distortion is pretty much and the light transmission is not so good. The Combi Prismatic leaves the Carton/Sears far behind in any kind of way.


About Swift. I bought a Swift 8 x 40 Saratoga MKII on Ebay and it's on its way to me. Love to see how it compares to the Combi Prismatic, and the 8.5 x 44 Audubon. |:d|


@ Edit An extra picture from the Combi Prismatic with more realistic colors. The pictures in my first post are too dark. Maybe it help to recognize the Combi a little easier. The body is grey and not black.

 

[Bencw]

About Swift. I bought a Swift 8 x 40 Saratoga MKII on Ebay and it's on its way to me. Love to see how it compares to the Combi Prismatic, and the 8.5 x 44 Audubon. |:d|.

Hi Scorpius, I knew that the Combi Prismatic was made by Kamakura Koki Co. Ltd., Warabi-Shi, I have seen the 8x40 version before. Your 7x50 sounds a great find.

I think you will like the Saratoga MK11, hope it's a clean one, I have one myself and I really like it, it will be interesting to see how it compares.

Ben

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

Great binocs. Like the tripod threads. Extra-wide 7x50s are fairly rare.
Carton made some very solid stuff.

 

[FrankD]

Scorpius,

If the Combi really leaves the Sears Discoverer 7x50s that far behind then they have me interested. I have several of the Sears 7x50s, including two of the model you pictured above. That particular Sears Discoverer is my favorite vintage wide angle 7x50. Love the relaxed, wide angle view.

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

One note on the Sears Discovers: the amber coating can look fine on inspection
but suddenly brighten and pick up a lot of contrast with a cleaning. Not sure why,
but it seems to happen more than with the fully hard-coated MgF type. I've done
4 pairs (prisms n all) 1 stayed OK, 3 got a lot better.

 

[Scorpius]

I think you will like the Saratoga MK11, hope it's a clean one, I have one myself and I really like it, it will be interesting to see how it compares.Ben

Thank you. I think that I like the Saratoga too because this weekend I could test a Swift 8.5 x 44 Audubon next to the Combi Prisma. The optical quality is almost the same. Only the Combi has better coatings, but the Audubon has better prisms (BaK4). If I have to make a choice which one I prefer? I can't. Even after many tests by daylight and under the night sky (astronomy) I still don't know.

The Audubon on the picture is the one I've used for the test. The owner (a friend) of the Audubon gave me the permission to open and clean these pair of binoculars. That was for me enough to disassemble the complete binocular to clean and improve it by blackening the last shining inside parts of the body. Mechanical the Audubon needed a check too to give it its solid feeling back. To finish the job I attached the missing parts and removed almost all the scratches and lost paint.

Nice to do, a happy owner and now I know how the Audubon is exactly build. In/ and outside. |=)|

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

Making the shiny black flat black...that's a satisfying activity!
I love the old lamp-black walls.

I recognize that precision focuser. That's actually well
beyond the ones on most other Swift models.
I only got a pair of 7x50s with that last week...very rare.

 

[MPeoples]

Hi Ceasar, I worked at Pocono, remember selling the Carton bino's.

 

[ceasar]

Hi Ceasar, I worked at Pocono, remember selling the Carton bino's.

I remember you working there. You have come up in the world! I bought a Pronto, a couple of lenses and a Gibraltar mount and later a TV-85 at Highpoint. I still have them.

Bob

 

[Bencw]

That was for me enough to disassemble the complete binocular to clean and improve it by blackening the last shining inside parts of the body. Mechanical the Audubon needed a check too to give it its solid feeling back. To finish the job I attached the missing parts and removed almost all the scratches and lost paint.
Nice to do, a happy owner and now I know how the Audubon is exactly build. In/ and outside. |=)|

Hi Scorpius,

Thanks for the photo of the stripped down Audubon. I have this model (gold) a nice one, the first photo, and another, in photo's 2 and 3, which I am about to disassemble and restore, I have not worked on the Audubon before, did you find any unexpected problems or was it fairly straightforward? What did you use to remove scratches? Any tips appreciated.
Ben

 

[Scorpius]

I have this model (gold) a nice one, the first photo, and another, in photo's 2 and 3, which I am about to disassemble and restore, I have not worked on the Audubon before, did you find any unexpected problems or was it fairly straightforward? What did you use to remove scratches?

The Audubon was really easy to disassemble. Fine sandpaper 400, spray paint (satin black) and tape to cover the parts you don't want to paint black.

I think you will like the Saratoga MK11, hope it's a clean one, I have one myself and I really like it, it will be interesting to see how it compares.

The seller sold the Saratoga as repair or for parts. There was a rattle inside but the optics were undamaged and the price was low. When I received the Saratoga the rattle was found quickly. One of the prism blocks wasn't fixed anymore. But the three screws were still in the body and after tightening the screws the rattle was gone. After a collimation the Saratoga was fixed again.

The only problem with the Saratoga 8 x 40 MK II is the eye relief. It's short and the eye rubber are too long. So I had to cut them off. After doing this the Saratoga is a nice binocular. Sharpness and contrast are good and not so far behind the Audubon 804 type 4. I like the Saratoga,... just like many other Swifts. |=)|


By the way. The Combi Prismatic 7 x 50, which is a great binocular, pushed me in the direction of the Swift Audubon. I love the Audubon and all the other Swifts closely related to the Audubon. So it was only a matter of time to have my own Swift Audubon. And yes, I found one,... and bought it (see photo). The Swift Audubon 8,5 x 44 HR/5 MC. My question: Why don't they take this Audubon back in production? Why not?

 

[Bencw]

T

By the way. The Combi Prismatic 7 x 50, which is a great binocular, pushed me in the direction of the Swift Audubon. I love the Audubon and all the other Swifts closely related to the Audubon. So it was only a matter of time to have my own Swift Audubon. And yes, I found one,... and bought it (see photo). The Swift Audubon 8,5 x 44 HR/5 MC. My question: Why don't they take this Audubon back in production? Why not?

Thanks for the tips Scorpius, your Saratoga looks in good shape and that is a fine Audubon you have got, the HR/5 is I think the best version.

 

[Scorpius]

Thanks for the tips Scorpius, your Saratoga looks in good shape and that is a fine Audubon you have got, the HR/5 is I think the best version.

Thanks. But there is also a Audubon 8,5 x 44 HR/5 FMC ED. ||