Can't tell if my lens is broke or if I'm rubbish (1 Viewer)

[the black fox]

sorry but your technique is totally wrong ,first off knowing how birds react to people these two shots have to be massive crops ,that on its own will show up any faults .
next as others have said your shutter speed is way to low .just try this out next time .switch your camera to a/v mode ,and make sure your shooting in a.i servo . set your aperture to f5.6 (you will only lose depth of field not sharpness) your i.s.o to a minimum of 800 and your white balance to either auto or sunny .

in the area that you intend to shoot in take a couple of test shots first .check that your shutter speed is fairly high a minimum of 1/1000th has been suggested in good light with these settings you should exceed this by quiet a way .this will freeze action and add sharpness to . you should also be in single point only focussing learn to quickly move your focus points around on screen till the main point is on the birds eye this is the main failure of many shots

do not spend money on a tripod for the type of photography your doing with a walk about lens its not needed ,instead look for resting places ,fence posts ,walls,etc .learn to improve your stance i would suggest moving your tripod mount foot to the top of the lens so your left hand can cradle the lens better ,your left hand should now naturally move further forward on the lens to support it .and also lean into the shot as if your firing a rifle .if you can sit down to take the shot knees up and use them as a support .

as i started off your to far away from the birds initially if you can find a spot where they seem to congregate ALWAYS have some mixed bird seed etc in bags in your pocket ,depending on species put down either bird seed ,peanuts ,or meal worms .retire to a reasonable distance and patiently wait for them to come to the feed instead of chasing them and stressing them out .

hope this helps and you can absorb it .if you want to see what the 400mm f5.6 can do check out my flickr stream

 

[Roy C]

I would offer this as a easy and full proof method of getting the shutter speed you want with the 400/5.6. Use Tv mode, set ISO to auto and dial-in the shutter speed you want - job done.
For perched birds try 1/1000 sec, for flyers just change the shutter speed to 1/1600 or faster. This method does away with the problem of which ISO to set, especially in changing light, you will always get the shutter speed you want. BTW even though you are in Tv mode this will always give you an f5.6 aperture(very occasionally f6.3) which is what you would have set in Av mode anyway.
This only works for the 400/5.6 lens because it is pin sharp wide open - if you were using a lens that needed stopping down it would not work and you would have to resort to the more long winded Av method and keep changing the ISO manually.

 

[Retrodaz]

Thanks, that's plenty of stuff to absorb.
The only thing i will say is that I was 20 feet from both birds. I couldnt really get any closer than that.
I like the idea of meals worms and seed, will certainly give that a try.

 

[seaspirit]

I have been shooting typically fast. More and more people have been telling me though that I need to low the shutterspeed as low as possible to get detailed shots and that it should be at least the same as the lens (I put it up normally to 500 as I can't seem to hold camera steady).

Is it possible that there is misunderstanding on your side when it comes to shutter speed terminology as you talk about 500 1000 etc.? Going from 1000 to 500 is not going down or lower, its actually going up or higher!

Shutter speed really means Exposure Time, i.e. the time the shutter is open and light can hit the sensor/film to form the image.
Exposure Time (i.e. Shutter Speed") is usually given as fraction of a second, i.e. your 500 is 1/500s (a relatively long time of "slow shutter speed") opposed to 1/1000s (half the time and twice the shutter speed).

I would assume people telling you to lower the shutter speed for getting details were referring to making the exposure time shorter, i.e. the shutter speed faster than the 1/500s you are using here. 1/1000s or the 1/2000s you had in some of your better flickr shots will freeze the action and minimize blur by camera shake and such, and are "lower" numbers than 1/500s.

Right now it seems to me that you tweak your settings in the wrong direction. For this kind of photography you want shutter speeds as fast as possible (meaning exposure times as short as possible) to freeze movement, i.e. shutter speeds shorter than 1/500s, preferably 1/1000s - 1/2500s. To get those you will have to open up the f-stop on the lens (i.e. the smallest number on the dial, like 5.6 for your lens) and increase the ISO (going from 200 to 400 will allow you to cut exposure time in half, e.g. go from 1/500s @ ISO200 to 1/1000s @ ISO400).

 

[Retrodaz]

Thanks seaspirit that makes a lot more sense. Would I be right in thinking that at those shutter speeds it's pointless trying to take photos and this time of evening as they will be too dark, or could i pull them back in photoshop?

Edit
Just took a shot at 1/1000 and 400 iso and it came out like this. no flash.

 

[Retrodaz]

I've just gone outside and taking a picture of a big spider plant and it's come out like this. 1/1000 400 iso
Surely it shouldn't be this dark?

 

[the black fox]

Can't quiet work out what your trying to do with this ,there has to be something wrong to get a black image ,but not knowing the actual light or place etc who knows ,what settings where you using .you have been given advise by both myself and Roy c which gives you two ways of acheiving the same result differently ..for the sake of argument in a.v mode set your aperture to f5.6 and your iso to 3200 and take a outside shot under street lights you should register something on the card .

 

[Retrodaz]

I took that on tv at 1/1000 and 400 iso. Did'nt try av mode, which would have made more sense. I can't guage how much light the lens needs, so wanted to test light conditions. It was about 7.15 when I took the image.
Edit i will try the much higher iso tomorrow at the same time.

 

[seaspirit]

Thanks seaspirit that makes a lot more sense. Would I be right in thinking that at those shutter speeds it's pointless trying to take photos and this time of evening as they will be too dark, or could i pull them back in photoshop?

Edit
Just took a shot at 1/1000 and 400 iso and it came out like this. no flash.

No Offense intended, but at this point I would recommend to read-up and educate yourself about some photography basics. For example how exposure time, f-stop, and ISO can be combined in different ways to yield a properly exposed image with different basic image features and compromizes like different depth of field (depending on f-stop), frezzing action or motion blur (depending on exposuretime/shutter speed) etc..

Without that you will keep stalling your progress.

 

[Retrodaz]

I've been reading mike aitkinsen's stuff. I will go back through it. Camera was working fine in auto with flash, so it's clearly me being rubbish.

 

[the black fox]

right as you took that in tv i will assume that the aperture was shut right down .i really do think you need to settle on something that works .i gave my suggestions earlier .a 400mm f5.6 lens used at 7.15 pm in inexperienced hands is really a recipe for disaster .
back to basics ,set camera to a/v mode ,set iso at around 800iso or 1250iso ,aperture wide open at f5.6 make sure your exposure compensation is on the 0 mark .point your camera at the target and before fully pressing the shutter confirm that the shutter speed you can see throughout the viewfinder is above 1/1000th of a sec .if o.k take photo ,if shutter speed to low increase iso in stages .if you cannot get the shutter speed up high enough ,its to bloody dark .or you have left the lens cap on .
i honestly think that you haven't got a clue as to what your doing and would suggest reading a lot on it .taking a picture is about using the light and getting that light onto the sensor .

and don't take the above comments to heart ,i was talking to a lady on sunday that had been told by someone that to shoot birds in the sky she needed to move her exposure compensation to a minus position of at least a full stop ,and couldn't believe it when i explained its the other way .she said perhaps thats why my bif shots are just black blobs .. have a look through my flickr stream and LOOK at the exif data i don't hide it it will give you a guide as to what works and why it works

 

[Retrodaz]

Not having a clue sounds a bit harsh but I did ask for critique ;p

With any luck I am going out saturday morning. I will take some more shots then and post them up. Thanks to everyone who has taking the time to give so much advice. Now to use it properly.

 

[Roy C]

I took that on tv at 1/1000 and 400 iso. Did'nt try av mode, which would have made more sense. I can't guage how much light the lens needs, so wanted to test light conditions. It was about 7.15 when I took the image.
Edit i will try the much higher iso tomorrow at the same time.

You do not have to guess -Just set auto ISO and the Camera will do it for you.

 

[davpen]

Roy, I read somewhere recently that the 7D's output at ISO multiples of 160 (ie 160, 320, 640 etc) tends to be relatively less noisy than when using the intervening ISOs. When using Auto ISO, have you ever found this to be the case?

Sorry if this is going off on a bit of a tangent.

David

 

[Roy C]

Roy, I read somewhere recently that the 7D's output at ISO multiples of 160 (ie 160, 320, 640 etc) tends to be relatively less noisy than when using the intervening ISOs. When using Auto ISO, have you ever found this to be the case?

Sorry if this is going off on a bit of a tangent.

David

Yes I have David, before I got the 5D3 I use to take my 7D landscapes at ISO 160 or ISO 320. I also found when using auto ISO on the 7D that ISO's like 1250 was as clean as ISO 800.
At one time intermediate ISO were not rated but nowadays since the 7D the algorithm has gotten a lot better, this is one reason why I have no problem whatsoever about using Auto ISO on modern Cameras. It is worth noting that even if you have your Camera set to only use full stop ISO's when you use auto ISO it will still use intermediates. As far as I am concerned, for the bird photographer where you can have variable light auto ISO is the best thing since slice bread - just one less thing to worry about in the field where you often have little time to make adjustments.

EDIT: A bit more info behind this ISO 160,320,640..... producing cleaner images. This is the theroy, these ISO's are pulled from the full ISO above so ISO 160 is pulled from ISO 200 and the method of pulling somehow produces a cleaner image than ISO 100 BUT the downside is that you do lose some dynamic res.
ISO like 125, 250,500..... are pushed from the full ISO below it and tend to produce a noisier image although the algorithms these days do very well in masking this.

At the end of the day if Noise is you main concern then a pulled ISO can be a good choice - on the other hand if Dynamic res is your main concern then it is best to stick to full ISO's. It is worth noting that as far as dynamic res goes it is much more important to get the metering right than worrying about losing 1/3 stop through using an intermediate ISO IMHO as an underexposed shot can lose a lot more than 1/3 stop.

 

[davpen]

Thanks very much for this Roy. It's all new to me. Just to be clear, can I ask which are the 'full' ISO values? Are they 100, 200, 400 etc?
Also, are these values (full, pushed, and pulled) the same across all cameras, eg my Olympus E3?

Cheers,

David

 

[ApusApus]

David, for info there is a bit more on the subject here http://indigoverse.com/the-truth-about-native-iso-for-canon-dslrs/

Full or native ISO's are as you state 100, 200, etc and I assume they are the same across all cameras but someone will confirm.


Shane

 

[davpen]

Well, I think I've found the answers to my questions above. 'Full' ISO stops are indeed 100, 200, 400 etc, and in theory they apply across all cameras.

Sorry if I've derailed the thread, and thanks again Roy.

David

Edit. Thanks Shane. I hadn't seen your reply when I posted mine.

 

[seaspirit]

Well, I think I've found the answers to my questions above. 'Full' ISO stops are indeed 100, 200, 400 etc, and in theory they apply across all cameras.

There is a difference between full stops in ISO and native ISO.
Changing ISO by a full stop doubles or cuts sensitivity in half. ISO 50 - 100 - 200 - 400 - 800 - 1600 are a full stop sequence, but so are ISO 125 - 250 - 500 - 1000 - 2000 or 150 - 300 - 600 - 1200 - 2400 ......
Similar full stop rows can be made for exposure time (1/400s - 1/200s but also 1/250s - 1/125s) and aperture f-stops (f4 - f2.8 is a full stop but so is f4.8 - 3.3).
In all scenarios, ISO-shutter speed-aperture, a full stop increase will double the amount of light hitting the sensor/film.
This is physics and applies to all optical systems/cameras.

A camera sensor's native ISO is the ISO where sensor data is not amplified or attenuated. For some sensors that is ISO 100 others apparently have native ISOs of 86 or 160.

For some Nikons (e.g. D800) a native ISO of 160 is reported and other authors claim its 100. In simple terms all other ISO settings are generated by additional amplification (>160) or attenuation (<160) of the native ISO. General consent seems that moving in full stops from native ISO keeps noise the lowest. For steps in between one has to find out if further amplification of the lower value or attenuation of the higher value works better.

 

[davpen]

Ah, right. So, to be able to use pushing and pulling effectively, you'd need to know the true native ISO of whichever camera you're using. Either that or use trial and error, and get to know your camera well enough to work out which ISO values on that specific model are best for relatively low noise or whatever. Cheers,

David