Buzzard or Bonelli's? (1 Viewer)

[Geoff WORCS]

I saw this bird over a coastal mountain at Petrovac, Montenegro two days ago. It was at considerable height and i initially thought it was common buzzard. Only had time for a couple of shots before it dissapeared. After reviewing this photo im no longer convinced of its identity. I cant see the classic common buzzard, usually diagnostic features - a breast band or pale bar on the inner wing either of which i might expect even on dark morph Common buzzard.
Also there appears to be no markings whatsoever on the underside body even though markings can be clearly seen on the underwing. The body colour is also bothering me. Ive seen rufous buzzards but not this fox red colour. I think the head looks small and more extended than the thick set short look of C. Buzzard. After comparison with C. Buzzard in flight the primaries look longer when measured from the carpal joint. There are also 6 primaries just protruding not 5. Even the wing coverts dont seem to extend so far towards the tail as on C. Buzzard as can be seen on the secound image where ive lifted the shaows.

 

[Richard Prior]

Looks perfectly normal for Steppe Buzzard to me Geoff.

 

[Geoff WORCS]

Looks perfectly normal for Steppe Buzzard to me Geoff.

Thats interesting but what makes you say that?

 

[Richard Prior]

Well, I have seen plenty for a start, but seriously, it doesn’t have six primary ‘fingers’ for me, unmarked underbody is normal in this colour form, the overall jizz screams Buzzard for me and not an Eagle sp.

 

[Geoff WORCS]

Well, I have seen plenty for a start, but seriously, it doesn’t have six primary ‘fingers’ for me, unmarked underbody is normal in this colour form, the overall jizz screams Buzzard for me and not an Eagle sp.

Seriously? 😂 But seriously, thanks for your input.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,
maybe its a good idea to post this in the Bird-ID section? Because its an interesting bird for me. I must admit, my initial reaction was: its a juvenile Hoeney Buzzard. But then I realized, that heavy artefacts change fine details.
But overall shape with long and full tail (and more?) fits a juvenile HB good. Yes, ID-friendly juvenile HB have a slightly fuller tail (towards Goshhawk-shape), but I get an unusual feeling for a CB tails here. More:

• the dark picture seems to show uniform dark choclatebrown underparts, uniformity and colour good for some juvenile HB
• details of any pattern on the tail is nearly impossible to judge imo, all is lost in picture resolution.

Yes, bill seems larger for a HB, thus better for CB, but is this an illusion caused by light effects?
I hope for others to confirm or correct, thank you!

 

[Hotspur]

Looks like a juv Honey Buzzard to me. I wonder if the tail barring has been lost in lightening the picture. Bonelli's always strikes me as a giant goshawk with Eagle wings and I wouldnt expect it to be so dark. It looks too lanky for Common Buzzard,

 

[Geoff WORCS]

Hello,
maybe its a good idea to post this in the Bird-ID section? Because its an interesting bird for me. I must admit, my initial reaction was: its a juvenile Hoeney Buzzard. But then I realized, that heavy artefacts change fine details.
But overall shape with long and full tail (and more?) fits a juvenile HB good. Yes, ID-friendly juvenile HB have a slightly fuller tail (towards Goshhawk-shape), but I get an unusual feeling for a CB tails here. More:

• the dark picture seems to show uniform dark choclatebrown underparts, uniformity and colour good for some juvenile HB
• details of any pattern on the tail is nearly impossible to judge imo, all is lost in picture resolution.

Yes, bill seems larger for a HB, thus better for CB, but is this an illusion caused by light effects?
I hope for others to confirm or correct, thank you!

Thanks Alexander i did not consider Honey buzzard. I think you may be correct. And yes i will also post in id forum. Thanks again much appreciated.

 

[Richard Prior]

And neither did I !! I just compared Bonelli’s E and Common/Steppe Buzzard
( whaddamistakatamake!).The way those bars turn up to the base of the primaries do favour HB.

 

[Geoff WORCS]

Looks like a juv Honey Buzzard to me. I wonder if the tail barring has been lost in lightening the picture. Bonelli's always strikes me as a giant goshawk with Eagle wings and I wouldnt expect it to be so dark. It looks too lanky for Common Buzzard,

Thanks James thats helpful, always good to get other opinions especially from those who have more experience of raptors then me.

 

[Geoff WORCS]

And neither did I !! I just compared Bonelli’s E and Common/Steppe Buzzard
( whaddamistakatamake!).The way those bars turn up to the base of the primaries do favour HB.

Thanks Richard 👍

 

[Belumat]

Juv Honey buzzard for me too

 

[Geoff WORCS]

Juv Honey buzzard for me too

Can you say why?

 

[Belumat]

It is for 2 reasons: the shape of the wing with the arm winder than the hand and the long tail. Then i consider him a young for the dark primaries (not just the tip) and the lacck of a large dark border on the wing

 

[Geoff WORCS]

It is for 2 reasons: the shape of the wing with the arm winder than the hand and the long tail. Then i consider him a young for the dark primaries (not just the tip) and the lacck of a large dark border on the wing

Thank you Belumat

 

[Richard Prior]

Geoff, have a look at this one on the Mallorca thread yesterday, post 563 :
Mallorca 2021
Cheers,
Richard

 

[wolfbirder]

I bow to superior observers, and of course it is hard to gauge jizz/profile from stills, but it doesn't strike me as a Honey Buzzard - which means it will be a Honey Buzzard -.

Looks like Steppe Buzzard to me with classic Buzzard proportions.