BOU vs. UK400 (2 Viewers)

[Andrew]

Recently i passed the 300 mark and felt really wonderful about it. I decided to look at my list. I use a list that I have formed myself based loosely on the BOU list with a few splits I think good enough to tick and a plastic Ross's Goose.

With the feel good factor of the 300th birds dying down I started to question the validity of my list. The splits I have are birds that I believe are likely to be split including a few gulls and geese.

A way of solving the bad feeling to to dratically cut a lot of birds off into a pool for potential armchair ticks and keep two separate lists but that is a petty way to have a high list.

I am recognising the fact that ticking subspecies and splits is just a way of cheating to get a higher list. I am not in competition with anyone but just want to see as many different species as possible in the UK so why should I tick plastics and subspecies? Might feel better ticking bona fide birds.

That lead me to think that the BOU "rule" is just as bad as LGRE's "rules". BOU listers are still ticking what a committee says they can tick (I know they don't directly do so) so LGRE's decision on what we can tick is no worse or better isn't it?

In the end it is a personal feeling, maybe if I cut the birds off and reach a "true" 300 milestone I will feel better? I think I may not as I have already had that feeling. Bit like scoring a penalty in the Cup Final and being ordered to retake it and scoring, the exhilaration is not as strong as the first time.

A "true" BOU list may make life easier as I might not feel so strong about chasing off after the latest rarity if it is a subspecies like the Black-headed Wagtail. I think not as I am predominantly a dude who likes SEEING birds and will still go for anything I have not seen before.

What do you guys and gals think of the BOU or the UK400 debate?

(No glib comments about twitching from Mr Allwood and Mr Wormwell please! )

PS ; Sorry if a lot of this makes no sense, just rambling!

 

[Bluetail]

BOU listers are still ticking what a committee says they can tick (I know they don't directly do so) so LGRE's decision on what we can tick is no worse or better isn't it?

Is it though?

At least the BOU's decisions are reached by a specially appointed taxonomic sub-committee after a great deal of detailed research and consideration - and the reasons are published in peer-reviewed journals for all to consider.

Although the UK400 list is also informed by the opinions of "experts" from various countries, many of whom surely know what they're talking about, I am not at all sure that it has undergone anything like the same degree of rigour. Ultimately it's a list drawn up for competitive listers who get frustrated by time (years, sometimes) it can take the BBRC and BOU to do their in-depth research. I think that speaks for itself. That is not to say that all the extra UK400 splits are likely to be bad - many are already recognised in other countries.

Me, I'm not interested in competing with anyone so I follow the BOURC, which after all is the official British record. At least it allows me to feel terribly self-righteous! I know I've seen various races of Yellow Wagtail, Herring Gull (God help me) and other things - I don't feel the need to give them a number.

 

[Neil Grubb]

At the risk of covering ground that has been covered on this subforum, why would you be bothered about what anyone else thought of your birding experience ? You have seen what you have seen, and whether you have seen 299 or 301 different species, genuinely accepted or not, plastic or feathered, or whatever, I don't see why it really matters!

I do realise that people get different things out of birdwatching, and I wouldn't presume to tell you how to conduct or enjoy your hobby. I just don't understand why any thrill comes from getting one's list to an arbitrary number.

 

[stevo]

Hi Andrew

Personally speaking it`s your life list tick what you like,it`s not like your presenting a list to a committee or engaging in a competition with other people.I have one or two birds listed which I think in the future will be split.Talking of splits anyone seen the latest press release on Canada geese from the BOU?

Cheers Steve.

 

[dan pointon]

My ultimate target is to get to 500 - and i've decided i'm going to do it BOU style, no exceptions. Things like Y L Gull, Caspian Gull etc had to be axed off my list so that i could get a true reflection of the number i'm on. Personally, i'd rather reach the milestones as absolutley legitimately as i can, and by BOU rules is the best way to do it. Maybe the best way to keep your list in BOU terms would be to order one of the BOU checklist booklets, the details on how to order which are on the Surfbirds website. It's absolutely free, apart from the requirement of a selk addressed envelope. The birds are not arranged by category, which i find confusing, they are in order as in a bird book, in family order, and each bird has a tick box for IOM, England, and NI. I find this is better as it is strictly BOU accepted species, apart from the recent additions to the list, which aren't in this book 'cuz they occurred since it was published. If you are going to do it BOU style then getting this book and filling in the boxes is probably the best way. Although at the end of the day it's up to you how you do it.

Dan

 

[Andrew]

A few cans of Carlsberg Export helps. I realised one thing. Have been going fine up to
now so why become a saddo and worry about it. I shall continue with my BOUish list.

Shall also tick the Black-headed Wag as I am my own legend in my own lifetime!

 

[Edward woodwood]

If i listed it would be BOU - no question.

worldwide i use Sibley and Monroe 1993 with a few extra splits as used by BirdLife International but still don't have a 'list' as such

Tim

 

[postcardcv]

Personally I keep my list strictly BOU - it's the official Bristish list and seems the most sensible standard to follow. I would be interested to know where I could find details fo the UK400 list, it would be interesting to see how much difference it would make...

 

[Bluetail]

I would be interested to know where I could find details fo the UK400 list, it would be interesting to see how much difference it would make...

Yes, I'd be curious too. It used to be available online, but doesn't seem to be any more.

 

[Bluetail]

If it's of any use to anyone, I have an up-to-date copy of the British List in Excel format (though in Voous order - I haven't got around to re-ordering it yet - and with the traditional English names). I can't attach it here, so e-mail me if you want a copy.

 

[dan pointon]

I have a copy of the UK400 list if anyone wants it e-mailing to them.

Dan

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

If it's of any use to anyone, I have an up-to-date copy of the British List in Excel format (though in Voous order - I haven't got around to re-ordering it yet - and with the traditional English names). I can't attach it here, so e-mail me if you want a copy.

Jason,

You could export it from Excel as a .csv file, rename to .txt and attach it.

Recipients would need to change it back to a .csv then import it into their spreadsheet.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[Andrew]

Still not 100% happy with my "system" so gonna bite the bullet and sort out the wheat from the chaff to revert to a BOU list. Should feel a lot better when I get to a true 300 in about six or seven birds time.

 

[postcardcv]

Thanks to Dan for sending me the list...

My Britsih list stands at 335 (BOU) and I've just worked out what it would be using the UK400 list - an amazing 359 - 24 extras. I had not realised quite how many splits were on the list and how many birds that the BOU have not accepted yet.

 

[sylvia staffs]

The simple solution to this problem is to have 2 lists. I have got a BOU list and a Uk 400 club list. Example being that the recent Barrows Goldeneye goes onto both lists were as the Black Headed Wagtail only goes on my UK 400 club list.

This does not mean i agree with all the decesions of both organisations, i.e the BOU not accepting Booted Eagle, Ruddy Shelduck or White Headed Duck or the UK 400 club not accepting American Black Tern as a split but allowing Least Tern.

Yes i know Barrows Goldeneye, Elegant Tern and Masked shrike have not been accepted by the BOU, but unless they are definatley rejected they stay on my list.

Which list do a treasure most? Obviously the BOU list, you dont get the same rush when its a UK 400 club tick, but thats my personal opinion.

Remember todays UK 400 club birds are tomorrows BOU birds how many people are regretting not seeing the Black Scoter.

Finally enjoy the birds for what they are, the fabulous scenery they sometimes turn up at and the friends we make through birding in general.

But when you have a tick, no matter what list it is going on and you arrive home again safely make sure you celebrate in style B

Phill.

 

[Bluetail]

Jason,

You could export it from Excel as a .csv file, rename to .txt and attach it.

Recipients would need to change it back to a .csv then import it into their spreadsheet.

Cheers,

Andy.

Thanks for that, Andy. Here it is then. Obviously you'll need to save it rather than open it and change the file extension back to .csv immediately.

 

[Terry Smith]

The simple solution to this problem is to have 2 lists. I have got a BOU list and a Uk 400 club list.

This does not mean i agree with all the decesions of both organisations.

Yes i know Barrows Goldeneye, Elegant Tern and Masked shrike have not been accepted by the BOU, but unless they are definatley rejected they stay on my list.

Remember todays UK 400 club birds are tomorrows BOU birds.

Phill.

1.Great Idea Phill! Have 2 lists and when anyone asks you what your list stands at you ask them BOU or UK400? You have a reply straight away!

2. You don't have to agree with either set of rules which makes perfect sense.

3.I saw the original Elegant Tern in N. Ireland back in 1982. I can count it on my official UK List because it was accepted by the N. Irish Rarities Committee, and as everyone knows N. Ireland is officially in the UK! Also saw the Devon bird so am in a failsafe position.

4. Today's UK400 Club birds are DEFINITELY tomorrow's BOU birds - I could DIE before anything is split or accepted by BOU. Another glowing recent example is the recent BOU decision on Lesser Canada Goose, (another armchair tick for Yours Truly).

5. Thanks for you thought-provoking comments Phill. Now I will add Black-headed Wagtail to my 'UK400 Club list'. By the way that famous taxonomist Stepanyon split Black-headed Wagtail as long ago as the early 90s.

NOW will someone please do something about splitting Siberian (Eastern) Stonechat - it's readily identified in all plumages and is split in the recent monograph by Urquhart.

Blimey, that was a bit serious for the Exmouth Birder!!

Terry

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Thanks for that, Andy. Here it is then. Obviously you'll need to save it rather than open it and change the file extension back to .csv immediately.

Thanks Bluetail, works for me (StarOffice 8)!

Andy.

 

[sylvia staffs]

Hello

If any one would like a copy of the Uk 400 club list in excel format just personally e-mail me and i will forward it on.

keep ticking everyone!!!!!

Phill.

 

[Nick Smith]

The simple solution to this problem is to have 2 lists. I have got a BOU list and a Uk 400 club list. Example being that the recent Barrows Goldeneye goes onto both lists were as the Black Headed Wagtail only goes on my UK 400 club list.

Well said Sylvia. What hasn't been said yet is that birders list need to be comparable. Oh i count such and such and i have peacock on my list -why not etc. Stick to the guide lines of whichever list, then when you say i've reach 200 species, that can be compared to someone elses list. Look at the UK400 without the letters LGRE in your mind. It is a good list with those extra goodies such as Am Herring Gull - a rare bird that deserves a place on a list.
Alternatively, have a BOU list and underneath Herring Gull, add in brackets YLGull etc, same with the Brent + Bean Geese.

Have many lists - its part of the fun