Blue Tits and Summer Feeding (1 Viewer)

[keith sellings]

I have just taken down my nest box (blue tit) to find five dead chicks inside they appeard to be just a few days old.
The box is situated on a mature Oak tree but I have seed feeders nearby. I had seen the parents feeding the chics with seed. Now my question is :- do members think that feeding seed is the possible cause of the fate of the chicks.
I would have thought that being in an Oak tree the parents would have had no trouble finding natural food.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.

 

[Laurab]

Dead chicks

I have just taken down my nest box (blue tit) to find five dead chicks inside they appeard to be just a few days old.
The box is situated on a mature Oak tree but I have seed feeders nearby. I had seen the parents feeding the chics with seed. Now my question is :- do members think that feeding seed is the possible cause of the fate of the chicks.
I would have thought that being in an Oak tree the parents would have had no trouble finding natural food.
Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Who knows, are you sure the parents are still alive?
Iffy weather at the start of yhe nesting season seemed to have delayed hatching of insect larvae, and other members have reported clutch losses. I've been putting out mealworms daily, which probably led to my single parent tit family fledging 7 of 8 ...one dead in box. Sparrows are still going mad for them... a life safer perhaps but a very expensive business, never enough mealies.

 

[Kits]

It could well be that both parents perished, though unusual. On another board I have read of several people finding dead chicks in nests. I don't think it is down to your bird seed.

 

[KnockerNorton]

It kind of is and it isn't. If they were feeding them seed then they were struggling to find their preferred food (one oak tree does not a territory make - they need several large trees). Seed has little water content, unlike juicy caterpillars, so the chicks would have died from dehydration - it commonly happens in garden nestboxes where artifical food is available.

If you took the seed away, then the parents would be forced to seek natural food. This means that the dehydration problem would be solved, but probably not the lack-of-food-problem that underlies it in the first place. You'd still get dead chicks (but they'd starve, not dehydrate). Artificial food can also help the adults, as they can have a quick snack to keep them going, so it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other as to whether you should feed or not.

Basically, your blue tits were chancing it - they had a not-very-good territory that couldn't really support the pair and a full brood, but they gave it a shot (it may have been their only chance to breed, after all), and they probably reared a couple of young. Think of them as a bit of insurance, like a reserve pair for when/if a better territory becomes available nearby. It's just an indicator that there is a high desnity of blue tits in your area, that they're even trying to breed in pretty marginal habitat.

 

[bluetit]

Sorry to hear about your sad findings, it's heartbreaking.
I would not think it's due to your feeding birdseed though as the birds are instinctively very sensible about what they offer the chicks. I've often seen the parents having a quick snack themselves and then taking something quite different to the nest, keeping the seed to a minimum. The supply of water from somewhere is important at any time, especially in warm dry weather but has no direct bearing on the chick-in-the-nest feeding.
What I have noticed this year though is that at least up here in my part of Scotland there has been a remarkable lack of greenfly which is a substantial component in freshly hatched bluetit feeding. Normally I have good broods in the garden and loads of greenfly ( except last year when one of the parents was killed which could also be possible in your case as already mentioned in another reply ) but this year I have seen only one chick with parent(s).
There is also the experience factor of the parents, if it's the first brood for both it can sometimes be like a trial run, sad but it happens.
So if you supply water and seed and it is taken just continue and trust the birds to do their thing, clean out your box of it's sad content, nest and all, and when you put it up again for next year's breeding season you may well have a success story.
Good luck for that, Bluetit

 

[KnockerNorton]

Greenfly are actually a secondary food, only taken when they can't find small caterpillars. If your birds are feeding greenfly to the young, then it's an indicator that yours have a somewhat marginal territory too. Nests that are fed with a large greenfly element (such as in gardens) tend to suffer higher mortality than woodland nests. Blue Tits are essentially woodland birds - gardens are a relatively poor habitat for them.

 

[bluetit]

Weeeeell, 4 years running, 6-8 chicks each year fledged ,with only the odd egg duff, can't be that bad now, can it?
Bluetit

 

[Mary Evelyn]

I don't think it was your bird seed either Keith.

The bluetits that nested in our garden would readily feed on Sunflower hearts etc.which i hope helped keep them strong and healthy but they searched under sills,fences bushes etc for the chicks natural food.They all fledged safely and they i hope are doing well.

 

[KnockerNorton]

I don't think it was your bird seed either Keith.

The bluetits that nested in our garden would readily feed on Sunflower hearts etc.which i hope helped keep them strong and healthy but they searched under sills,fences bushes etc for the chicks natural food.They all fledged safely and they i hope are doing well.

But did you see them taking sunflower hearts in to feed the chicks? If not, then it's irrelevent to this discussion. Basic fact is, if blue tits are short of food they'll take sunflower hearts in to feed the chicks. Sunflower hearts have a low water content, and the chicks will die of dehydration if they get too much of it. Fact, I'm afraid.

 

[bluetit]

Hear what you're saying, Poecile, but the parents would have to be in a pretty desperate situation to have to feed the chicks that much sunflowerhearts to have the dehydratory result?
If I may digress ever so slightly ( Keith, this is your thread, apologies for hijacking it of sorts...) BUT this year Great Tits took over the box and I watched a very interesting thing - the parents would take a sunflowerheart, pick the pointy bit off and then take the wee knobbly bit back to the nest, that bit perhaps being the most nutritious 'succulent' part of the heart? So parents got a nibble, chicks got a nibble and the 5 eggs/chicks all fledged as bouncing little bundles of fluffy energy!

 

[Seamoor]

Are Maggots any good

I have been reading about the Blue Tits and I was wondering if ordinary fishing maggots would be any good, as these are much cheaper than meal worms and are readily available all year round.

 

[Mary Evelyn]

But did you see them taking sunflower hearts in to feed the chicks? If not, then it's irrelevent to this discussion. Basic fact is, if blue tits are short of food they'll take sunflower hearts in to feed the chicks. Sunflower hearts have a low water content, and the chicks will die of dehydration if they get too much of it. Fact, I'm afraid.

Anything said that helps our birds is important.This is not a competition and i do not remember sunflower hearts being a part of the original question.I believe it was seeds.I do however know about dehydration and i am sure that Bluetit does too and has had much success.That's what it's all about.Ensuring the birds in our gardens do well and learning from our mistakes.My chicks survived to fledge,that's all that matters.Once outside they have a damn sight more than sunflower hearts to worry about.

We are not here to poke at other people Poecile but to help each other take care of our birds.As long as the Bluetits are thriving in my area,i am happy.

 

[Kezza]

Maggots

I have been reading about the Blue Tits and I was wondering if ordinary fishing maggots would be any good, as these are much cheaper than meal worms and are readily available all year round.

Seamoor, Here are two earlier discussions on maggots that may help you:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=35058&highlight=maggots

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=18864&page=1&pp=25

 

[KnockerNorton]

Hear what you're saying, Poecile, but the parents would have to be in a pretty desperate situation to have to feed the chicks that much sunflowerhearts to have the dehydratory result?

Not realyl no, as remember that everything they get in terms of food and water has to come via the parents - so if they're not being brought enough water in the bodies of insects then they'll die. And every bit of sunflower heart they're brought is a drink of water they're not being brought.

They are small birds, and metabolise quickly, so they need to keep up the liquid intake.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Anything said that helps our birds is important.This is not a competition and i do not remember sunflower hearts being a part of the original question.I believe it was seeds.I do however know about dehydration and i am sure that Bluetit does too and has had much success.That's what it's all about.Ensuring the birds in our gardens do well and learning from our mistakes.My chicks survived to fledge,that's all that matters.Once outside they have a damn sight more than sunflower hearts to worry about.

We are not here to poke at other people Poecile but to help each other take care of our birds.As long as the Bluetits are thriving in my area,i am happy.

Sunflower hearts *are* seeds, Mary, and the principle is the same with any seed (or, indeed, nuts): they're low in water content. It isn't a competeition, no, so you don't need to wade in either, and the upshot is that it's kind of 50/50 whether you should feed seed during the breeding season - it can kill the chicks if the parents keep taking it in, but if they're strapped for food anyway then it's probably of little consequence as they'll die anyway, plus it can possibly help the adults a little.

re fishing shop maggots - avoid them at all costs, as they're usually contaminated with various bacteria that can quickly kill the chicks.

 

[keith sellings]

thank you all for your interest in my problem. Just to clear up a few things, my nest box was situated on a very mature oak tree one of three within 25 yds of each other so I would have thought plenty of natural food for them if they wanted it, but it was sunflower hearts that I saw the parent birds taking into the nest box. I think that Poecile is probably correct in his dehydration theory. Thank you all.

 

[vinnielo]

I do find it odd that there were 5 dead chicks in the box.. I thought the parents usually removed them to prevent bacteria/odours from building up?

 

[bluetit]

No vinnielo, not neccessarily apparently, perhaps it depends on the size of the chick/how deep the nest is in relation to the opening of the box? I had also 5 dead chicks last year, and could always tell by the flies that were gathering - would quickly whisk it out one at a time. The last 2 died in the same night and I ended up with the remaining 3 by next morning! We surmised by evidence/ educated guess that one of the parents had died and the remaining one could not cope with the brood. ( The trio I fostered did very well and I still see them around regularly! )
Bluetit

 

[Marmot]

On one of our first years with the box [camera monitored] there was 8 chicks to begin with and one by one they died during the 14 days or so that it takes to fledge, in the end only one of them managed to leave. That year the weather had turned cold and wet and there was not much live food for them around, we had quite a few feeders in the garden. It even looked us as if the weather conditions affecting the live food and it also seemed to us they had a virus or chill.

Don't think your chicks dying was anything at all to do with sunflower hearts [or seed] as the following year we had a brood of 8 and all survived and the parents did take quite a lot of sunflower hearts in.