Big cats in the UK (2 Viewers)

[The sniper]

This is a subject that has always fascinated me,i have seen plenty of programmes about possible big cats out there roaming the streets & fields of the Uk,but most of the programmes i have seen have failed to provide any concrete evidence on any big cats out there.I am sure this is not true as it is obvious that some have been released/escaped from time to time and the amount of sightings on an annual basis would suggest that they are out there somewhere,albeit probably just a few and not hundreds as some people would have us believe.
Was just wondering if anyone had seen or come across any large predators.
I live just on the edge of london near brentwood and there has for years been talk of the beast of Brentwood with a few sightings reported annually,my mate even claims to have seen something in fields not far from his house but this was 7 or 8 years ago now,personally the only encounter i have had with anything out of the ordinary was at 3am last summer near wastwater in the lake district when we was driving to scafell pike to do the second part of the 3 peaks challenge,cant really describe what we saw as it was very strange,sort of a cross between a badger and a wallaby(which chased the car for a few yards),very strange but i have put that down to 8 hours constant driving and the time of the morning.

 

[FXM]

Thousands of claims in the UK but as far I know little to support them. I'm sure someone will put me right if that is not the case. We very recently had a four page (A4) submission at Filey relating to a large cat at the Dams Nature Reserve. When you analysed the rather lengthy account, however, only one of the two persons present observed the 'cat' and it was only seen for two seconds. The submission came from the non-observer. Was it really a large cat? Maybe... but more likely it was something else. It certainly scared the lady that claimed to have seen it.

My own feeling is that there are probably one or two escapes but surely if there were numerous cats out there we'd have good supporting evidence by now despite difficulties in seeing big cats.

 

[The sniper]

you would of thought so by now but evidence is clearly lacking.
Saying all that,crowded although these wonderful islands of ours may be,there are still large areas where there is little or nothing around for miles,even near london,where i live near Brentwood,to the north,east and west of the town there are large areas of woodland and extensive farmland with smaller pockets of woodland which could possibly substain a cat,there is also many prey items with livestock,deer etc in abundance

 

[FXM]

You are absolutely correct. There are lots of secluded areas where cats could be lurking. I still feel it's easy to put forward a case for why cats could be out there but until the evidence of their existence is in front of us I find it hard to believe their numbers are anything other than very low at best.

 

[Mono]

If you go anywhere in the world where there are large cats, or even medium sized ones like lynx, whilst it can be virtually impossible to see the beast themselves the signs are everywhere: spraint, footprints, scratching posts. All we get in the UK is glimpsed sightings and blurry photographs but no other signs.

A few years back there was a Channel 4 programme where the brought two Canadian fur trappers over to the UK to scout around at various cat hotspots, they found not one trace.

Although when they do actually occur in the UK they can be seen.
http://www.zsl.org/info/media/press-releases/378,378,PR.html

 

[The sniper]

I remember seeing that programme,i believe they met with a fellow trapper from gloucestershire,i seem to remember this bloke being very amateurish and when the gents from canada basically put to bed his claims of cats in the area by dismissing his evidence as dog tracks (which they clearly were),he wouldnt have it,i cant help thinking that although the canadians were very experienced we could of got someone from these shores who didn't look so foolish to be honest

 

[bitterntwisted]

you would of thought so by now but evidence is clearly lacking.

Not so lacking as you might think. See Darren Naish's blog here... http://darrennaish.blogspot.com/2006/02/british-big-cats-how-good-or-bad-is.html He's a 'proper scientist' with an interest in the subject. As he says, most 'proper scientists' steer well clear of cryptozoological territority.

There definitely have been big cats at large in the UK at times over the last 30 years. Both puma and lynx have been captured and a lynx has been shot dead. My google fu is weak today, but I've seen definitive, recent evidence of Lynx in Dorset (scat, prints) validated by experts, discussed on here.

How long these cats are surviving in the wild I don't know, and I seriously doubt that there could be self-sustaining populations, but the sightings have continued long after the peak caused by the 1976 dangerous animals legislation, so either they are still escaping or they are surviving.

Graham

 

[Isurus]

There definitely have been big cats at large in the UK at times over the last 30 years. Both puma and lynx have been captured and a lynx has been shot dead. My google fu is weak today, but I've seen definitive, recent evidence of Lynx in Dorset (scat, prints) validated by experts, discussed on here.

That was also a Naish publication relating to work done by Jon McGowan:
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2007/04/beasts_of_portland_the_locatio.php

I've no doubt there are small cat species out there; lynxes and jungle cat probably. I'm far less convinced about suggestions of leopard or puma as anything other than the occasional escapee.

As regards that tv show, I saw it too and the british guy did appear rather foolish. That said 2 experts from canada being over for a couple of months is not the epic survey that would be needed to really do the question justice.

 

[Isurus]

Ps the brief article by Naish Graham linked too is apparently going to form part of tetzoo book one. I mention this because a couple of the photos in this link may be of interest:
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/10/tetrapod_zoology_book_one.php

 

[Apodemus]

Ps the brief article by Naish Graham linked too is apparently going to form part of tetzoo book one. I mention this because a couple of the photos in this link may be of interest:
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2010/10/tetrapod_zoology_book_one.php

The bottom right hand picture is a very foxy looking animal.

 

[Mike Richardson]

I have a very hard time excepting that big cats are roaming the British countryside. The odd lynx perhaps, but not leopards, Jaguars etc. While such animals lead very cryptic lives, they leave many signs that can be readily identified. All we seem to have is blurry photos and inconclusive evidence such as the odd sheep carcass with ‘possible’ feline teeth marks.

Surely with modern trail cameras, DNA analysis etc, we would have some concrete evidence by now.

If someone was really serious about proving the existence of big cats in the UK it should be perfectly possible with time and money. In North America dogs are trained to hunt big cats over large distances eventually cornering the cat up a tree. I see no reason why a pack of these dogs couldn’t be brought over for several months. They could be taken to the next couple of sightings and most likely would end up chasing a big, black tom cat for the next few hours!

 

[Apodemus]

I have a very hard time excepting that big cats are roaming the British countryside. The odd lynx perhaps, but not leopards, Jaguars etc. While such animals lead very cryptic lives, they leave many signs that can be readily identified. All we seem to have is blurry photos and inconclusive evidence such as the odd sheep carcass with ‘possible’ feline teeth marks.

Surely with modern trail cameras, DNA analysis etc, we would have some concrete evidence by now.

If someone was really serious about proving the existence of big cats in the UK it should be perfectly possible with time and money. In North America dogs are trained to hunt big cats over large distances eventually cornering the cat up a tree. I see no reason why a pack of these dogs couldn’t be brought over for several months. They could be taken to the next couple of sightings and most likely would end up chasing a big, black tom cat for the next few hours!

Exactly my take on the whole thing. Never say "never", but the idea that there are places in the British countryside where populations of such animals could be living undetected is ridiculous. It's the same phenomenon as Victorian fairies, UFOs and crop circles - people need something mysterious to believe in.

 

[Mike Richardson]

you would of thought so by now but evidence is clearly lacking.
Saying all that,crowded although these wonderful islands of ours may be,there are still large areas where there is little or nothing around for miles,even near london,where i live near Brentwood,to the north,east and west of the town there are large areas of woodland and extensive farmland with smaller pockets of woodland which could possibly substain a cat,there is also many prey items with livestock,deer etc in abundance

My girlfriend is from your neck of the woods so I spend quite a bit of time around Thurrock, Upminster etc.

Funnily enough, discounting the herd of semi-captive Fallow Deer that live in the fields near to the M25/A12 junction, I’ve have yet to see any species of wild deer in the area. To put this in context I’ve seen countless Red Foxes, several Badgers and a good selection of smaller mammals around South Essex.

I’ve always thought this rather odd, especially as I see Roe Deer most days around Bridlington. Now I know the reason why!

 

[The sniper]

Upminster is actually where i live now but many people dont know it.
There are roe deer,albeit in small numbers south of the A127 around a little village called bulphan,there was also one at Rainham Marsh reserve earlier this year,the first record for the site.I have seen the odd one in the fields to the south and east of upminster and we are also seeing more and more muntjacs now,these are also seen regularly in brentwood now.
As for the Brentwood area,they(roe & fallow deer) are there in south weald & thorndon country parks (wild as well as in pens)and also all over the surrounding countryside but they can be very difficult to see but they are there.

 

[FXM]

It's reasonable to assume there will always be a small number of alien big cats (ABCs) roaming around in the wild and Darren Naish's blog seems to back this up with hard evidence. Of the thousands of UK sightings, however, the vast majority still relate to misidentifications... don't they?

 

[The sniper]

would of thought so but who knows,i think its a fascinating subject and although i am not totally convinced by many of the sightings i do think that one day soon something will come out that shakes us up a bit,would be nice to have a wildcat population found in england or wales somewhere

 

[bitterntwisted]

Of the thousands of UK sightings, however, the vast majority still relate to misidentifications... don't they?

Undoubtedly. I expect almost all of them relate to domestic cats and dogs, or even foxes and otters. But it's surely undeniable that there have been escaped large cats surviving for months at least in the UK, particularly after the legislative changes in 1976. I think it's plausible that some are at still at large following more recent escapes, especially the smaller species. I still think it's extremely unlikely that there are viable breeding populations of any of them, but I hesitate to dismiss it altogether because we once thought all eagle owls were fence-hoppers, didn't we?

I would expect any cats which were discovered to be assumed recent escapes, and to be shot or captured. It strikes me this could be a disincentive to reporting by some (This is rumoured still to be the case with
eagle owls, although obviously two UK breeding pairs did reach the public domain)

Of course the wilder claims, and the enthusiasts' websites are littered with assertions which would make even IBWO searchers and Bigfoot believers wince, and there's no doubt the subject is a crank-magnet for alien abductees and crop circle enthusiasts (http://www.ufodigest.com/news/1206/alienbigcats.html). I think that does stigmatise it and prevent serious research. Who here would want to claim a big cat sighting in the UK?

Graham

 

[Mike Richardson]

Upminster is actually where i live now but many people dont know it.
There are roe deer,albeit in small numbers south of the A127 around a little village called bulphan,there was also one at Rainham Marsh reserve earlier this year,the first record for the site.I have seen the odd one in the fields to the south and east of upminster and we are also seeing more and more muntjacs now,these are also seen regularly in brentwood now.
As for the Brentwood area,they(roe & fallow deer) are there in south weald & thorndon country parks (wild as well as in pens)and also all over the surrounding countryside but they can be very difficult to see but they are there.

Cheers for the info Sniper. My friend used to work in Tilbury and she saw a Muntjac a couple of years ago. It will only be a matter of time before they're a very common sight in S. Essex.

 

[The sniper]

i regularly see one foraging on the bank of the m25 clockwise between potters bar and the A10 junction (24-25 i believe)

 

[jurek]

Please don't call Darren Naish scientific authority here.

His blog is popular, not a scientific publication, and never he made a claim that big cats live (other than short-living escapes, which are known and recovered) in Britain.

I can quote mono; "If you go anywhere in the world where there are large cats, or even medium sized ones like lynx, whilst it can be virtually impossible to see the beast themselves the signs are everywhere: spraint, footprints, scratching posts. All we get in the UK is glimpsed sightings and blurry photographs but no other signs."

BTW, Darren's book and blog are both very good reads!