Aythya sp any thoughts (2 Viewers)

[Birdspotter]

Any thoughts ?

 

[jforgham]

Hi There,
Lighting not 100% on this bird but could be common pochard or pochard hybrid (tuftie/scaup sp?) but with this shot would go for common. Darkness of wings compared to flanks could be a little misleading. Bill and eye colour good for pochard
Check out: http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/69306/sort/1/cat/all/page/1 and see what you think.In the gallery there are also hybrid pochard shots. Put pochard into search and see what comes up.
Jono

 

[J Jones]

When I looked at that, my immediate reaction was Northern X Red-crested Pochard, initially on head shape.

 

[dbradnum]

When I looked at that, my immediate reaction was Northern X Red-crested Pochard, initially on head shape.

Ditto - I think it was bill shape that was uppermost in my mind, but I can see what you mean.

Mind you, given it's a hybrid duck, frankly, who knows? (Some would say, who cares?!)

 

[Vinch]

I don't think that it would be a pochard X tufted because of eye coloration and bill shape...
It would be a red-crested pochard X common pochard in my opinion. It is effectively similar to other hybrids of this kind I saw in photos

 

[Birdspotter]

Hi All,
Thanks for your replies so far.
Firstly can I say this is NO Pochard.
Its either an Aythya hybrid or a 1st w male Redhead.
As I only have experiance of 2 adult male Redhead's in Texas in 2001 and an imm f on Barra I need help on this, also I have a rather limited experiance of Aythya hybrids, so help needed on both counts.
Size and shape is fine for Redhead in that the bird was around 10% bigger than nearby Pochards and was more broader and bulkier resulting in a more upright pose as it sat up in the water more.
Head shape SEEMS fine to me as does the bill both reminding me of the Barra bird, note very prominent hook to tip.
Overall dark colouring mainly to the base of the bill indicates an immature bird, there was a dark tip to the bill seperated from the upper bill by a white subterminal band, just above this band was a small patch of blue.
Young male Redhead's gain 1st w plumage by about December, including a nice pale blue bill with a dark tip seperated by a white subterminal band, so bill colouring looks to be on course.
Upperwings and underwing also seem fine.
Now down to 1st w male Redhead plumage of which I am totally unfamiliar with, the photo's of this bird show buff markings to the plumage on the black breast and flanks, I have a photo at home showing a female with a 1st w male Rehead in the background which shows this feature as also it seems to show the more browner back with grey patches moulting through as this bird does. Has anyone got confirmation of these features for me.
The big downer on this bird as far as I am concerned is that it does seem to show a redddish eye, all photograph's and books mention or show a bright yelllow or orange eye, although there was a mention that the eye colour can vary, my mate says that a photo of the Welsh bird seemed to show a reddish eye.
Hope this all helps,as I just cant seem to be able to find any decent shots of 1st w Redheads anywhere.
Cheers.
ps A warning anybody thinking about typing just Redhead into their search engines bettter have a broad mind, try adding duck on the end.

 

[Birdspotter]

When I looked at that, my immediate reaction was Northern X Red-crested Pochard, initially on head shape.

Spot on, was initial reaction to Barra bird.

 

[dbradnum]

It doesn't immediately strike me as Redhead, though I've no experience of this in the field. The bill doesn't look as though it's going to develop the very strongly tipped pattern of that species to me - the faint pattern it does show looks more like Pochard with a blue-grey panel below the nasal groove (stealing terminology from the tattler ID thread!). The bill also looks a shade too lightweight perhaps, too much like RC Pochard. As you say, the iris colour is a drawback as well.

However, if the bird is larger than Pochard, as you say, then that detracts from the RC Pochard hybrid theory - this is definitely an interesting one!

I'm off to look for 1st winter Redhead photos...

 

[Birdspotter]

heres a shot of the Barra bird for comparison,check out head shape and bill.

 

[dbradnum]

Yeah, fair point - it's not a bad match by any stretch of the imagination!

This all comes down to the iris colour from what I can see at the moment.

 

[J Jones]

There's something not quite right about that bird for Redhead... I'm trying to work out what it is (aside the eye colouration).

Where was/is this individual?

 

[mountain man]

Any thoughts ?

Any more pictures?

It looks similar to a doppelganger Redhead we had at Chorlton Water Park in winter 2002/3. Based on head shape, head colour and eye colour (which was very bright - unlike yours) we ended up deciding that it was probably a female Tufted x male Pochard. I also remember that our hybrid bird initially appeared to be larger than the Pochards it was with, but in the end we worked out that its size was practically identical to the Pochards but it was more bouyant and sat higher up on the water.

I've got quite a lot of notes on that bird if you're interested.

Tom

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hi ,

I think the bird in question is a Red-crested Pochard x Pochard hybrid.
Compare with the attached collage of such hybrids.

Typical:
Dark red eyes,
Back darker than flanks;
on back the shoulder area just behind the neck is lighter than the rest
Feathers around base of bill quite dark , getting lighter red-brown over the rest of the head
Rounded head shape

I´d very much like to see notes or pictures of your bird, Tom!

Any more pictures?

It looks similar to a doppelganger Redhead we had at Chorlton Water Park in winter 2002/3. Based on head shape, head colour and eye colour (which was very bright - unlike yours) we ended up deciding that it was probably a female Tufted x male Pochard. I also remember that our hybrid bird initially appeared to be larger than the Pochards it was with, but in the end we worked out that its size was practically identical to the Pochards but it was more bouyant and sat higher up on the water.

I've got quite a lot of notes on that bird if you're interested.

Tom

 

[HH75]

Hi all,
I would agree that this bird, which would be a 1st-winter male on plumage detail, does not seem to be a Redhead, not least due to the reddish iris (yellow or slightly orange on Redhead), but the bill shape also seems to betray some Red-crested Pochard influence. Pochard x Red-crested Pochard would be my vote, I'm afraid!
Regards,
Harry

 

[Edward woodwood]

yes, no redhead

anytne know if Poch hybrids are fertile? may even be a Poch/RCP back cross with poch again...

 

[Birdspotter]

Hi All,
Firstly many thanks for your input into this most instructive Duck, particuarly Joern with the hybrid shots, Aythyas dont you just love em.
Saw the beast again today, nice but not half as good as the Grey Phalarope we had today :t:
cheers again.

 

[J Jones]

Spot on, was initial reaction to Barra bird.

It's a bit easier with drakes. There wasn't much to suggest that's a Redhead. You'd be very brave submitting that. For starters the bill is wrong, the headshape is wrong, and the eye colour is wrong.

 

[McShifty]

No Xmas yeartick for you listers out there - hybrid Poch/RC Poch me thinks..shame.

 

[James Lowther]

Any more pictures?

It looks similar to a doppelganger Redhead we had at Chorlton Water Park in winter 2002/3. Based on head shape, head colour and eye colour (which was very bright - unlike yours) we ended up deciding that it was probably a female Tufted x male Pochard. I also remember that our hybrid bird initially appeared to be larger than the Pochards it was with, but in the end we worked out that its size was practically identical to the Pochards but it was more bouyant and sat higher up on the water.

I've got quite a lot of notes on that bird if you're interested.

Tom

I remember the Aythya hybrids at CWP with great affection. Did you see the burgundy-headed Lesser Scaup lookalike or the pochard-shaped female Scaup in 2000/2001??

 

[nickderry]

I've got to go with the masses here and say RC Pochard with Pochard hybrid, look at the photo for a while and see how it looks like a blur of the two species. The bill is definitely like a mix between the two as is the head shape. The brown tinge on the back is also pointing towards R C Pochard parentage.

Does anybody know of occurence of RC Pochard and Mallard hybrids? RCs that I used to see at Belvide reservoir often hung around with the mallards and I remember one hybrid 'duck' that I thought most likely to be a mix of the two.