Atlas Wheatear - Oenanthe seebohmi ? (1 Viewer)

[oguenaydin]

Hi need help for this bird,

Foto: 24.03.2024 Taşucu Mersin / Türkiye

Thanks in advance.

Ogün

 

[Muppit17]

Hi need help for this bird,

Foto: 24.03.2024 Taşucu Mersin / Türkiye

Thanks in advance.

Ogün


View attachment 1568527

Superficially I does look like O. seebohmi, but there are a number of points that don't ring true to me.

I have never seen one with grey lores. The back is a bit dark. The wings don't seem long enough - normally the tips reach the inner edge of the black terminal bar on the tail,. The supercilium narrowing in front of they eye is also puzzling.


Oddly it looks very similar to the dark throated Maghreb Wheatear females (the pictures in Collins 3rd edition are way off as a reference sadly).

I would really like a flight shot, preferably with underwing to progress.

 

[Bertus]

Nice pic...!! Maybe this might help: Maghreb Wheatear should be split according to new research - MaghrebOrnitho

eBird does not accept the name Maghreb Wheatea, not even Oenanthe halophila, although Wikipedia does describe it.

 

[Muppit17]

Nice pic...!! Maybe this might help: Maghreb Wheatear should be split according to new research - MaghrebOrnitho

eBird does not accept the name Maghreb Wheatea, not even Oenanthe halophila, although Wikipedia does describe it.

Handbook of the Birds of the Western Palearctic (2 volume passerines book by Shirahai etc) describes it fully

 

[Gladiator96]

can an aberrant/melanistic Northern Wheatear be ruled out?

 

[Brian J Small]

On first looks it certainly looks good for Atlas Wheatear, but as others have written it does look quite dark grey above compared with the pale, powdery blue-grey of adult males - could this be down to exposure?

The black side of the neck crossing from black throat and wings (reminiscent of Desert Wheatear) is also beyond my experience, but Atlas can show extensive black on the neck side. I will root out some images of spring 2cy males, but here is one from eBird
ML463033761 - Atlas Wheatear - Macaulay Library that shows a good amount of black.

Tail pattern looks good though - ML463033761 - Atlas Wheatear - Macaulay Library

Hard to see what else it might be...

Brian

 

[oguenaydin]

I have upload an Video https://ebird.org/checklist/S166266801

 

[dwatsonbirder]

The black auxiliaries are obvious in the video - I believe this would rule out any partially melanistic Northern Wheatear. The spread tail shot shows that the extent of the black on the outermost tail feather is less than 1/3 of the total length, and that the primary projection is roughly equal to (or perhaps a tiny bit shorter than) the exposed tertial - both seemingly good features for Seebohm's (see here).
Please take my comments with a rather large pinch of salt though - despite three trips into the Atlas, Seebohm's is still high up my most wanted!
That photo of the displaying Spur-winged lapwing is superb btw @oguenaydin

 

[Tote]

Can be Finsch's ruled out? An old female or something?

 

[Brian J Small]

Can be Finsch's ruled out? An old female or something?

like this? ML615090822 - Finsch's Wheatear - Macaulay Library

perhaps a good call, but it does look male apart from pale lores

 

[Muppit17]

like this? ML615090822 - Finsch's Wheatear - Macaulay Library

perhaps a good call, but it does look male apart from pale lores

It is perhaps interesting that Collins 3rd edition concentrates on the separation of Maghreb from Finsch's. Normally their ranges don't meet. Perhaps this is the one occasion it is of use

 

[Muppit17]

like this? ML615090822 - Finsch's Wheatear - Macaulay Library

perhaps a good call, but it does look male apart from pale lores

The video is enlightening. I have never seen either Maghreb or Atlas tail-dipping like this bird.

I have also just about managed to free frame the video on the open wing. It appears black, both on upper side and underside. If correct (I am only doing it on a smart phone) this rules out Atlas immediately, and in Maghreb I would expect some contrast between primaries and coverts as is typical of the Mourning complex .

Unlike some of the earlier comments I am fortunate in having experience of all three species, in the case of Atlas/Maghreb in the last fortnight. In Finsch's, my most recent sightings are from last May. I must admit I haven't seen a dark throated female Finsch's (only pale-throated). I wouldn't be surprised if one could look like this

 

[njlarsen]

This is what I see from the underwing in that video:

 

[oguenaydin]

This is what I see from the underwing in that video:
View attachment 1568860

 

[Viktor Björkert]

This bird from eBird, labeled as Finch's Wheatear, appears very similar to the bird in question. Other than that, I have no comments on the identification.

ML515769451 - Finsch's Wheatear - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML515769451; © Itay Berger; HaDarom, Israel

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[oguenaydin]

Whats the last ID ?

 

[Brian J Small]

Contra to my post 6, I believe that there is enough here to say it is Finsch's - whch is certainly more likely, too.

The slightly stocky structure - including large bill - and plumage is within the range of Finsch's.

Brian

 

[njlarsen]

Please upload at least one of these great images into the birdforum gallery, we do not have many of this species and seemingly none with this plumage.
Niels

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Whats the last ID ?

FWIW, I came late in this thread, but I agree on Finsch's Wheatear.