Are Starling's pest's, Bully's and birds no one wants in there garden? (1 Viewer)

[wildlifelove]

Hi

It's a question that people talk about when watching there garden bird's feeding and a flock of starling's arrive. Now it's a question i would like to see your view on this topic.
I personally don't mind seeing starling's feeding on my food, As like most bird's i put the food out for them to eat and well if it's getting eaten then i find it's fine. BUT that's only my view. So what do you think...

Are they pest's, Do you like them feeding in your garden?

 

[Lmc3598]

Hi
Most of the negative views are from th other side of the Atlantic where they are non native pests. Over here, they can be competitive with other birds, and make a racket, but big roosting colonies are spectacular to watch.

 

[TheBirdGarden]

They are a rarity in my garden and I am not too sure why. At the feeders every bird is bullying another. Coal tit gets bullied by the blue tit, the blue tit gets bullied by the sparrow, the sparrow gets bullied by the starlings, the starlings get bullied by the magpies but they all live. Even today I saw a robin in a scrap with a group of house sparrows and I mean proper getting physical.

I quite like starlings, they are chopsy birds and I wish they come to my garden more often

 

[Joe1980]

As the first American to speak up, I'll start by saying that starlings are a rarity in my yard personally. They swing by spring through summer, but never to my feeders, only in the lawn, picking out beetles and grubs, which in my book is A-OK. I might feel differntly if they were swamping my feeders, but then again, the house sparrows do, and I don't lose too much sleep over it. The only time I get upset over a large group of birds is when they make a sanitary mess, such as the mourning doves that show up here in winter when the snow is deep. Normally they are on the nearby farms, but once the snow gets deep, they flock to feeders. Doves are like pigeons, in that once the numbers get large, the become a nuisance because they hang around all day, pooping all over everything. Starlings and house sparrows don't do that. They hang around in trees and shrubs, keeping their mess in there, not on my deck and in the bird bath. So, short answer, no, I don't think starlings are a big deal. I'm the type who says that if you put out food for birds, then you should accept all birds, and not think you get to pick and choose. Despite me not liking doves so much, I just let them eat, and shoo them away once they start roosting on my gazebo and deck railings. All they do is go fly to a nearby tree and roost, which is fine with me.

 

[crazyfingers]

I can't resist. I first learned about the European Starling from Jenny Wren.

BUTCHER THE SHRIKE was not the only newcomer in the Old Orchard. There was another stranger who, Peter Rabbit soon discovered, was looked on with some suspicion by all the other birds of the Old Orchard. The first time Peter saw him, he was walking about on the ground some distance off. He didn't hop but walked, and at that distance he looked all black. The way he carried himself and his movements as he walked made Peter think of Creaker the Grackle. In fact, Peter mistook him for Creaker. That was because he didn't really look at him. If he had he would have seen at once that the stranger was smaller than Creaker.

Presently the stranger flew up in a tree and Peter saw that his tail was little more than half as long as that of Creaker. At once it came over Peter that this was a stranger to him, and of course his curiosity was aroused. He didn't have any doubt whatever that this was a member of the Blackbird family, but which one it could be he hadn't the least idea. "Jenny Wren will know," thought Peter and scampered off to hunt her up.

[270] "Who is that new member of the Blackbird family who has come to live in the Old Orchard?" Peter asked as soon as he found Jenny Wren.

"There isn't any new member of the Blackbird family living in the Old Orchard," retorted Jenny Wren tartly.

"There is too," contradicted Peter. "I saw him with my own eyes. I can see him now. He's sitting in that tree over yonder this very minute. He's all black, so of course he must be a member of the Blackbird family."

"Tut, tut, tut, tut, tut!" scolded Jenny Wren. "Tut, tut, tut, tut, tut! That fellow isn't a member of the Blackbird family at all, and what's more, he isn't black. Go over there and take a good look at him; then come back and tell me if you still think he is black."

Jenny turned her back on Peter and went to hunting worms. There being nothing else to do, Peter hopped over where he could get a good look at the stranger. The sun was shining full on him, and he wasn't black at all. Jenny Wren was right. For the most part he was very dark green. At least, that is what Peter thought at first glance. Then, as the stranger moved, he seemed to be a rich purple in places. In short he changed color as he turned. His feathers were like those of Creaker the Grackle—iridescent. All over he [271] was speckled with tiny light spots. Underneath he was dark brownish-gray. His wings and tail were of the same color, with little touches of buff. His rather large bill was yellow.

Peter hurried back to Jenny Wren and it must be confessed he looked sheepish. "You were right, Jenny Wren; he isn't black at all," confessed Peter. "Of course I was right. I usually am," retorted Jenny. "He isn't black, he isn't even related to the Blackbird family, and he hasn't any business in the Old Orchard. In fact, if you ask me, he hasn't any business in this country anyway. He's a foreigner. That's what he is—a foreigner."

"But you haven't told me who he is," protested Peter.

"He is Speckles the Starling, and he isn't really an American at all," replied Jenny. "He comes from across the ocean the same as Bully the English Sparrow. Thank goodness he hasn't such a quarrelsome disposition as Bully. Just the same, the rest of us would be better satisfied if he were not here. He has taken possession of one of the old homes of Yellow Wing the Flicker, and that means one less house for birds who really belong here. If his family increases at the rate Bully's family does, I'm afraid some of us will soon be crowded out of the Old Orchard. Did you notice that yellow bill of his?"

[272] Peter nodded. "I certainly did," said he. "I couldn't very well help noticing it."

"Well, there's a funny thing about that bill," replied Jenny. "In winter it turns almost black. Most of us wear a different colored suit in winter, but our bills remain the same."

"Well, he seems to be pretty well fixed here, and I don't see but what the thing for the rest of you birds to do is to make the best of the matter," said Peter. "What I want to know is whether or not he is of any use."

"I guess he must do some good," admitted Jenny Wren rather grudgingly. "I've seen him picking up worms and grubs, but he likes grain, and I have a suspicion that if his family becomes very numerous, and I suspect it will, they will eat more of Farmer Brown's grain than they will pay for by the worms and bugs they destroy. Hello! There's Dandy the Waxwing and his friends."

The Baldwin Project

Note to Mods: The quoted text is in the public domain

I don't know if this topic has come up much but it's this book that has gotten my young kids interested in and respectful of birds. If you have young kids you really should read this book to them. They will love it and learn about the birds around them.

 

[Joe1980]

Quite the story there, but I don't quite gather where you stand. I see both opinions in that story, both of which carry good arguements for each side. I am at a loss when it comes to the saga of the house sparrow and starling. Mainly, I understand the displacement of native birds, but at the same, it has been what, 160 years now that sparrows have been here? Whatever damage people say they cause, should have been done by now right?? Also, I am in 100% belief that the sparrows and starlings are simply filling in a niche created by humans. For example, I live in a small city, 1/2 mile from a 33,000 acre wildlife refuge. When I head out of the city, I see bluebirds all over. Here in my yard, and elsewhere around the city, I have never once seen a bluebird. The opposite is true of the house sparrows, none in the country, lots in the city. So, what does one take from that? Are the sparrows keeping the bluebirds out? I don't think so. Humans destroyed the bluebird's habitat, and created one that house sparrows thrive in. So, are the sparrows really displacing native birds? I don't think so. Humans are, and the sparrows are one of the few birds that have the ability to both deal with us humans, and actually enjoy it as well. So maybe we should stop trying to get rid of them, and start enjoying that fact that they like us.

By the way, you can pretty much insert starlings in the place of the word house sparrow, because they are very much the same, thriving on the destruction that humans create.

P.S. just ask someone who lives in the middle of a big city if they like starlings and house sparrows, because they wouldn't have anything more then pigeons otherwise.

 

[crazyfingers]

Joe, it's just a story. It's a fun story for kids - written in 1919 by a naturalist.

I didn't post it to make a point one way or another except perhaps to make the point that the book is a great way to get kids interested in birds.

As far as the European starling in North America goes, this is what I got on a quick Google.

Starling populations are doing extremely well, and their range is continuing to expand. From a pest control perspective, they are highly beneficial. They consume large numbers of clover beetles, cutworms, Japanese beetles, grasshoppers, ants, bees, wasps, and other insects. They also will eat garbage, and because they add fruits such as cherries and wild fruits to their diet, they can become an agricultural pest.

They will readily eat suet provided for woodpeckers, and that leads us to another downside of Starlings. Starlings are cavity breeders, and are aggressive competitors against native species of birds, especially cavity nesting birds such as flickers, bluebirds and the Great Crested Flycatcher.

Source

Based on that one item I found, it seems that the European starling is not a huge problem in North America but probably things would have been better had they not been introduced. I don;t have anything against them. They are nice birds.

But one never knows what the impact will be. The starling was introduced in New York City 120 years ago to bring birds found in the writings of William Shakespeare to the US. That's a stupid reason to introduce a non-native species to a new environment.

 

[etudiant]

Starlings in the US are a plague. I would send them all back if I could.
They are supercompetitive in their quest for breeding sites and will non stop harass and eventually evict even somewhat larger birds such as Red Bellied Woodpeckers.
The failure of a recent effort to reintroduce Screech Owls here in NYs Central Park was largely due to the inability of the owls to hold any roosting/nesting cavity against the relentless tide of Starlings.

 

[crazyfingers]

Starlings in the US are a plague. I would send them all back if I could.
They are supercompetitive in their quest for breeding sites and will non stop harass and eventually evict even somewhat larger birds such as Red Bellied Woodpeckers.
The failure of a recent effort to reintroduce Screech Owls here in NYs Central Park was largely due to the inability of the owls to hold any roosting/nesting cavity against the relentless tide of Starlings.

That's interesting. Thanks.

 

[Joe1980]

Crazyfinger, my appologies if I sounded harsh, as I didn't intend to. I actually liked the story, and just wondered if you were stating an opinion or not. Anywho, I am not defending invasive species. I am basically saying that its not so much the birds causing the problem, but us humans. I agree that we'd be better off if they'd never been introduced, but the reality is, with todays age of globalization, if they hadn't been purposely introduced way back when, they would have been accidentally introduced via ship or some other way. We have to face a reality that is becoming more and more apparent, and that is that humans have populated to a point now where our impact is playing a major role in the spread of invasive species all over the world, as well as the destruction of natural habitat. It's a basic law of cause and effect. The cause is the spread of human populations, and obviously the effect is the change that is occuring in nature. I'm not demonizing humans here, but it's a fact of life. Some get mad at me for saying these things, but I truly believe that running around trying to correct the effect (the invasives, decline of natives) without correcting the cause (human population increase) is a lost cause. It's like trying to clean up the flood in your basement, without first fixing the broken water pipe. The only problem now is that you cannot correct the cause, and in turn, you cannot correct the effect.

Oh, and as for the owl thing in Central Park, take a look around, it's a park placed in the middle of a huge city. Not exactly the perfect place for native wildlife, although I appreciate the intent, and agree with trying to provide something for wildlife in the city.

 

[etudiant]

Crazyfinger, my appologies if I sounded harsh, as I didn't intend to. I actually liked the story, and just wondered if you were stating an opinion or not. Anywho, I am not defending invasive species. I am basically saying that its not so much the birds causing the problem, but us humans. I agree that we'd be better off if they'd never been introduced, but the reality is, with todays age of globalization, if they hadn't been purposely introduced way back when, they would have been accidentally introduced via ship or some other way. We have to face a reality that is becoming more and more apparent, and that is that humans have populated to a point now where our impact is playing a major role in the spread of invasive species all over the world, as well as the destruction of natural habitat. It's a basic law of cause and effect. The cause is the spread of human populations, and obviously the effect is the change that is occuring in nature. I'm not demonizing humans here, but it's a fact of life. Some get mad at me for saying these things, but I truly believe that running around trying to correct the effect (the invasives, decline of natives) without correcting the cause (human population increase) is a lost cause. It's like trying to clean up the flood in your basement, without first fixing the broken water pipe. The only problem now is that you cannot correct the cause, and in turn, you cannot correct the effect.

Oh, and as for the owl thing in Central Park, take a look around, it's a park placed in the middle of a huge city. Not exactly the perfect place for native wildlife, although I appreciate the intent, and agree with trying to provide something for wildlife in the city.

There is no doubt that humans bear the responsibility for invasives and that the process is still ongoing,. This is strikingly illustrated by a recent study that showed the Fire Ant, which came to the US from Argentina, has now been reexported from the US to Asia and Australia. Africa and Europe are next, presumably. We are impoverishing our biosphere as a result and will surely regret that for an eternity, because there is no fix. At most, we can have palliatives, better controls on trade and travel, but even that is hard to achieve. Imo, the only longer term solution is to enrich people sufficiently that they no longer wish to trade the environment for a brief livelihood. Progress on that is painfully slow, unfortunately.

Incidentally, Central Park covers about 1.5 square miles, has a substantial population of Raccoons and supports several larger hawks, mostly Red Tail and Coopers. It has plenty of good habitat for owls,
if they could find some refuge to nest in.

 

[Gary Polliard]

I have commented in this forum on a screech owl box I put up three years ago. the first year the starlings moved in and yes made a nest. the second year an owl moved in and it was funny to watch the starling come up to the box, look inside and back away as if to say "whats going on here" The starlings left and now for the second year the owls are nesting. I only put out oil sunflower and peanuts, and niger seed at the feeder and the starlings do not bother, much. The starlings are lunch for the passing coopers or red-tail hawk but the biggest deterant of Starlings is not to provide a nesting place as in the uncovered eave of a house. If there is way they can get into the soffit of a house a nest will soon follow. Our game commission does not protect them with any game laws as there open season on them and english sparrows. I have more problem with the sparrows taking bluebird nesting boxes than with Starling. My neighbor mows 5 acres of ground and throws table scraps out and the Starlings stay over there. If they do become too numerous I take measures to "thin them out" although I have thought of erecting a sparrow hawk house to help out.

 

[wildlifelove]

Good response, and a good small debate. I don't mind them but i have found that there is big number's of hater's. But really if you want to feed birds, there bird's, and if no one feed's them then they could die out.

 

[Nature__lover]

they are most certainly not pests . they are beautiful birds with great character, and they are declining! I love every bird, personally.

 

[Nature__lover]

... even pigeons.

 

[Joe1980]

I think the conclusion could be said to be that in the US, they are hated, and in Europe, they are ok. Obviously they are native in Europe, so they aren't disrupting native bird populations like they are here in the US. I too get angry sometimes when I think of what sparrows and starlings to to our native birds, but at the same time, how can I blame them?? Here's a good example of a problem with a native bird:

Brown-headed cowbirds, as most may know, are nest parasites. They destroy eggs of other birds, lay theirs, and have the victim parents raise the cowbird's young. This parasitic nature comes from how the cowbird lived in the past, following herds of buffalo, eating the insects that got kicked up by the herd. Low and behold, humans destroyed the prairies and the buffalo herd, and what do you think happened? That's right, they were forced to adapt, and they did just that, and very well I might add. Now, people want to thin out cowbirds by killing them because they are causing a decline in other bird species by replacing eggs. Doesn't seem very fair to me, and is another example to tackling the effect before addressing the cause.

And here's a neat feat: If you find a nest with eggs, and notice that one is a cowbird egg, you may want to think twice before tossing it out. Female cowbirds return from time to time to check on their eggs and/or babies. Over half will have a retaliation response if they come back and find their eggs(s) missing, and will destroy all the other eggs, and sometimes the entire nest. They will then return to once again replace eggs once the host bird rebuild and relays her eggs.

 

[NCJuneBug]

I am new to birding, but the name of this thread made me think of a little poem my grandmother used to spout off at random sometimes.

You never call me darling, Starling
When other birds are near, you're mean.
You spoil the happy woodland scene!
Go back across the ocean wide
We do not want you on our side!

 

[Ms Tarfgi]

I love watching the huge flocks of starlings at dusk, but in the garden they are pests. They obviously have to eat as well as the other species, but I'd like to see a variety of birds in the garden. The starlings descend on the feeder and the lawn as soon as I put food out, and like a swarm of locust they gobble the lot in about ten minutes, cover the conservatory roof and my car with bird poo. One even managed a large dollop on one of my dog's head this morning! They are not wanted in my garden!

 

[Nature__lover]

I love watching the huge flocks of starlings at dusk, but in the garden they are pests. They obviously have to eat as well as the other species, but I'd like to see a variety of birds in the garden. The starlings descend on the feeder and the lawn as soon as I put food out, and like a swarm of locust they gobble the lot in about ten minutes, cover the conservatory roof and my car with bird poo. One even managed a large dollop on one of my dog's head this morning! They are not wanted in my garden!

set aside a different area for the starlings to feed, and give the other feeders guardians. best of both worlds :t:

 

[Fozzybear]

I don't get anything like as many as I used to and I'm really sad about that as I was really thrilled to be getting as many as sixty feeding in my garden and aerating my lawn with their beaks. Gorgeous birds, full of character and cheek. :t: