Alternative to Pentax Papilio 6.5x21 mkii for insects (1 Viewer)

[Boogieshrew]

Hi all,
I have been getting interested in insects while out birding recently. I don't have any bins that focus closer than 2m so I'd like to get some that get down to at least 1m.
The Papilio seem the obvious choice as they are light enough to take along with whatever bins and scope that I'm birding with. I could put them in a pouch on my belt to keep them handy but out of the way of my other bins.
The close focus of 0.5m is amazing, the 6.5 mag means plenty of depth and the fov of 7.5* is acceptable (but wider would be better for chasing after fast dragonflies and the like) and the reverse porro design helps on the steriopsis

But before I get a pair:

What's not to like? The er seems a bit low as I wear glasses but I won't know until I try them.

Is there an alternative binocular for insect watching?

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[Richard D]

Another possibility for insects would be a close focusing monocular like the Leica Monovid or the Minox Macroscope. Both are very small and work well, the Macroscope allowing extremely close range viewing without extra lenses.

 

[Boogieshrew]

I hadn't considered monoculars and thinking about it now, I know why. I don't particularly like using my scope for too long because of keeping one eye shut. Seems to throw the eyes out of sink with each other, if you know what I mean.
Monoculars is a great option for minimising weight though.

 

[Troubador]

I hadn't considered monoculars and thinking about it now, I know why. I don't particularly like using my scope for too long because of keeping one eye shut. Seems to throw the eyes out of sink with each other, if you know what I mean.
Monoculars is a great option for minimising weight though.

We use Zeiss 6x18 Mono quite a lot but not as much as we used to because we have both acquired Leica Trinovid HD 8x32 and both our units focus down to 1 metre (and even a bit closer using your own eyes' accomodation) so we find these great for both birding and for close views of butterflies, dragonflies and flowers.

Gettiing down on hands and knees to look at life in ponds and sea-shore rock pools is where the Zeiss Mono is fantastic at revealing the fascinating forms of life there.

Lee

 

[mwhogue]

Hi all,
I have been getting interested in insects while out birding recently. I don't have any bins that focus closer than 2m so I'd like to get some that get down to at least 1m.
The Papilio seem the obvious choice as they are light enough to take along with whatever bins and scope that I'm birding with. I could put them in a pouch on my belt to keep them handy but out of the way of my other bins.
The close focus of 0.5m is amazing, the 6.5 mag means plenty of depth and the fov of 7.5* is acceptable (but wider would be better for chasing after fast dragonflies and the like) and the reverse porro design helps on the steriopsis

But before I get a pair:

What's not to like? The er seems a bit low as I wear glasses but I won't know until I try them.

Is there an alternative binocular for insect watching?

Thanks for your opinions.

Boogie,

Very little "not to like" about the Papilio 6.5. The er works fine for me but I can get full fov down into the 13.5 range even with glasses so that may be an issue for you. The strap attachment is proprietary which is a slight drawback perhaps. Oddly it includes a fitting to mount on a tripod (?!). It is small and light enough to conveniently carry on a belt in the included case as one of a brace of bins if desired.

But as you mention the fov - while good makes it difficult for me to keep track of faster moving dragonflies and Monarch butterflies. So another possible option is the Kowa 6.5x32 which has a much wider fov and close focus of @ 1.1 m.

Mike

 

[Alexis Powell]

I have, or have tried, numerous very close focus 8x32 models, like the Leica and Kowa mentioned above. In many situations, especially when butterflying+birding, I prefer them overall to the Pentax Papilio 6.5x. But for dedicated butterfly or "bug" watching, the Pentax has no equal. I can't imagine not owning them, no matter what else I might own or use, and the good news is that they are an inexpensive purchase. Get them. I have no problems with eye relief with my glasses. I have a very early unit and a much later production unit (Papilio II). The latter has somewhat better coatings.

--AP

 

[Boogieshrew]

Thanks everyone.
I think I'll try the Kowa and the Papilio.
I can't stretch to the £700 for the trinovid for bins that I will only use in summer insect season.

If the er is ok, I can't see how I can go wrong with the Papilio for the price.

And I thought I wouldn't buy any more binoculars now I have the retrovid 7x35 🤦‍♂️😂

 

[Boogieshrew]

Haha. I've just realised I may already have what I need. I own a Viking 6.5x32 MD and I just recalled that it has 1m close focus I think.

 

[pat mitchel]

One aspect of the papillio that as far as I know, is not used on ANY other bino is the fact that as you get to close focus, the objective elements move closer together- effectively minimizing the need to cross your eyes when using the bino in extreme close ups. Being a reverse porros helps in that regard, moving the objectives even closer together completes the trick. Regards, Pat

 

[PYRTLE]

I'm with Richard D. A high spec monocular ( like the Zeiss ) is very useful for insects, plants and bugs.

 

[John A Roberts]

As Pat indicates in post #9, the Papilios both:
• focus by objective movement (as is common with reverse/ inboard Porro prism designs), and;
• as the focus distance approaches the minimum, the two objectives actually move closer to each other!

See two images from the patent, the first showing the objectives at the infinity setting and then at the minimum distance.
More details can be found in post #4 at: Where are the aspherics?


John

 

[Boogieshrew]

As Pat indicates in post #9, the Papilios both:
• focus by objective movement (as is common with reverse/ inboard Porro prism designs), and;
• as the focus distance approaches the minimum, the two objectives actually move closer to each other!

See two images from the patent, the first showing the objectives at the infinity setting and then at the minimum distance.
More details can be found in post #4 at: Where are the aspherics?


John
View attachment 1460783

Pat and John,

That is very clever. It is a huge plus for the Papilio. I'm sure my 50+ years eyes would greatly appreciate not having to strain to accommodate a close up view.
That strain is also avoided entirely by a monocular of course but I feel binocular vision is better.

I will be trying the Pentax soon.

Thanks

 

[Binocollector]

I got the Papilio MKII 6.5. The ER is a bit short, when I leave my glasses on. The FoV is reduced slightly. Apart from that there are not many weaknesses. It's not waterproof, if that is of importance. And for me it shows a slight rolling ball effect when panning at longer distances but that is not really what it was made for.
Optics are very good and I found this review that even mentioned the transmission values. I bought mine after reading that review when it was on sale on German Amazon for slightly over 100€.

PENTAX Papilio II 6.5x21 binoculars review

Detailed testing of the PENTAX Papilio II 6.5x21 binoculars by astrophotographer Ruslan Ilnitsky

star-hunter.ru

 

[albie...]

I do not believe there is a suitable alternative for the Papilio considering what they cost . For what they do the cost of admission is insignificant .
The eye relief is a little tight but I can still see the entire field of view with my glasses on .
I like to mount mine to a little tripod when I study insects or flowers . The closer you get to the objects being viewed the better the macro view . Problem is when you are as close to the object as you can be any slight movement causes constant focusing , this is why I mount them to a tripod .

 

[Grando]

The Leica Trinovids have 1m close focus, so might be worth a look, but are obviously a much-higher price.
I have a pair of the 8.5 Papilio and they are great for close-up insect stuff too, so if you can look through both Papilios before you buy it might be worth it. The 8.5s are more than usable for distant stuff on a walk, though nowhere near as good as, say, the Trinovids, would be for that. But for just ultra close insect-watching I'd say there are probably no binoculars out there like the Pentax.

 

[Bino Steve]

Too late I guess, but the Pentax VD 4x20, that also splits and becomes A 16x spotted scope when you attach the 2 barrels together also has 1.6m/2ft close focus and 19mm eye relief. Plus it is fun to freak out your buddies with as you pretend to rip your binoculars apart. Lol

 

[Bino Steve]

As a monocular they focus to .5m

 

[Boogieshrew]

The Leica Trinovids have 1m close focus, so might be worth a look, but are obviously a much-higher price.
I have a pair of the 8.5 Papilio and they are great for close-up insect stuff too, so if you can look through both Papilios before you buy it might be worth it. The 8.5s are more than usable for distant stuff on a walk, though nowhere near as good as, say, the Trinovids, would be for that. But for just ultra close insect-watching I'd say there are probably no binoculars out there like the Pentax.

I bet the trinovids are lovely bins but to expensive for me as a summer only insect watching tool. Thanks for the suggestion though 👍

 

[Boogieshrew]

Too late I guess, but the Pentax VD 4x20, that also splits and becomes A 16x spotted scope when you attach the 2 barrels together also has 1.6m/2ft close focus and 19mm eye relief. Plus it is fun to freak out your buddies with as you pretend to rip your binoculars apart. Lol

Wow. I don't recall seeing those before. The mag seems a bit low but 5mm exit pupil, 175m fov and 19mm er sounds great.
I think I will try these out.
And a handy 16x spotter for when you don't want to carry the full kaboodle of scope and tripod.
I am very intrigued although it sounds a bit gimmicky.
Thanks

 

[Bino Steve]

Boogie, it sounds gimmicky, but reviews are great and skeptics changed their mind after trying. Obviously it's collimation concerns but apparently they nailed it. 4x20 a bit shy, but for backyard and bugs, ( hey that would be a good youtube channel name, Lol) they are probably perfect. About $200.