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Alpine Chough on Anglesey (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter David Smith
- Start date
Rob Smallwood
Well-known member
Never having (knowingly) seen an Alpine Chough, what would we see on these photos that would confirm "Common" and/or rule out Alpine?
From photos I've seen Alpine has a Blackbirdy feel about it - presumably because of the bill size (I'm not suggesting possible confusion by the way!)
From photos I've seen Alpine has a Blackbirdy feel about it - presumably because of the bill size (I'm not suggesting possible confusion by the way!)
Last edited:
lostinjapan
Well-known member
Hey James
Thanks for taking the time to upload the photos.
It would seem from first glance that it is probably a Red-billed Chough with an aberrant bill colour.
However, the photos are hazy and it would still be good to see shots of it closer, preferably at rest, when the longer tail would be apparent if it were Alpine, as well as the bill structure.
A shot of the bird from underneath would also be good, as the more rounded tail of Alpine Chough would also be noticeable.
From the shots you took, it seems the primaries are too long for Alpine. Red-billed Chough have much longer primaries than Alpine. The wings are also very rectangular, more like Red-billed Chough, than Alpine Chough, whose wings tend to be squarer.
The bill, although yellow, appears quite long, which again would indicate Red-billed, as Alpine would be shorter and stubbier.
Still anyone going to Soth Stack should look out for this bird and try and get some more conclusive shots, especially given that a Blue Rock Thrush has just turned up in Powys!
Sean
Hiroshima
Check out my blog: http://www.hirobirder.blogspot.com
Thanks for taking the time to upload the photos.
It would seem from first glance that it is probably a Red-billed Chough with an aberrant bill colour.
However, the photos are hazy and it would still be good to see shots of it closer, preferably at rest, when the longer tail would be apparent if it were Alpine, as well as the bill structure.
A shot of the bird from underneath would also be good, as the more rounded tail of Alpine Chough would also be noticeable.
From the shots you took, it seems the primaries are too long for Alpine. Red-billed Chough have much longer primaries than Alpine. The wings are also very rectangular, more like Red-billed Chough, than Alpine Chough, whose wings tend to be squarer.
The bill, although yellow, appears quite long, which again would indicate Red-billed, as Alpine would be shorter and stubbier.
Still anyone going to Soth Stack should look out for this bird and try and get some more conclusive shots, especially given that a Blue Rock Thrush has just turned up in Powys!
Sean
Hiroshima
Check out my blog: http://www.hirobirder.blogspot.com
lostinjapan
Well-known member
Hey James
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to ruin your credibility by suggesting you had thought it was an Alpine Chough,as I know you didn't start the thread.
Obviously your photos and comments have helped resolve for the most part the
possibility of this being what would be an amazing bird had it been one.
Sorry if my comments made it seem that you had suggested Alpine Chough at any point.
I was just replying to the query from Rob on what made most who have seen the photos distinguish it as Red-billed Chough.
Cheers
Sean
Hiroshima
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to ruin your credibility by suggesting you had thought it was an Alpine Chough,as I know you didn't start the thread.
Obviously your photos and comments have helped resolve for the most part the
possibility of this being what would be an amazing bird had it been one.
Sorry if my comments made it seem that you had suggested Alpine Chough at any point.
I was just replying to the query from Rob on what made most who have seen the photos distinguish it as Red-billed Chough.
Cheers
Sean
Hiroshima
James
I'm losing it!
lostinjapan said:
Hey Sean
I was not having a pop at you, it's just that there is a tendancy on this forum to always misinterpret what people say. I just wanted it clear that I have no idea what this bird is. From my brief views I believe it is nothing but an abberant Chough. Thought others might be stimulated into taking a look. If I was to predict a new bird for Britain it would not be Alpine Chough!
Cheers
James
jogresh
Bimble and patch
Hi, i've just been shown this thread by a mate in Japan. It would be nice to make absolutely sure this is just a Chough with a yellow bill! I've been in touch with Ken Croft, Alan Davies, and the warden of South Stack, none have heard anything about it. So if you're heading that way tomorrow, keep your eyes open!
JimMorris
Registered User
Alpine Chough
.First posted by Dave Smith
(In some ways I wish I hadn't seen it as everything says it's not possible but both of us were possitive about the few features we remember.)
Don't feel bad about it David. You can only report what you see, there seems to be a lot birding folk who think that because the book says they are not in this country that is final. I could start a thread on the Eagle Owl seen at the back of my house but I'm sure no-one would believe me. I hope the photo was some help.
.First posted by Dave Smith
(In some ways I wish I hadn't seen it as everything says it's not possible but both of us were possitive about the few features we remember.)
Don't feel bad about it David. You can only report what you see, there seems to be a lot birding folk who think that because the book says they are not in this country that is final. I could start a thread on the Eagle Owl seen at the back of my house but I'm sure no-one would believe me. I hope the photo was some help.
lostinjapan
Well-known member
Hey Jim
I for one haven't outright pooh-poohed the idea of the bird being an ALPINE CHOUGH. I for one would love it if it was. However, the odds are stacked against it being one wouldn't you say, given their largely resident status in montane areas, with very little movement even altitudinally. oreover, if it is the same bird as in James's pics, it seems that it is a Red-billed Chough, see previous post for reasons why.
It is great that David picked up on this bird being different to the other Chough there.
I told my friend jogresh, as he is the assistant warden at Conwy and knows the appropriate N Wales RSPB staff. Now just because they didn't know about it, (in the same way that the pics are inconclusive) doesn't mean it can't still be an Alpine Chough, as they are busy people I guess, doing reserve maintenance, helpingout visitors etc. and don't always have time for birding . Now they know they'll keep an eye out for the bird too, and hopefully will be able to get more evidence on whether it is an aberrant chough or an Alpine.
I for one wholeheartedly believe you may have had an Eagle Owl at the bottom of your garden. They have bred in neighbouring Derbyshire in recent years and although I didn't see it, there was a notorious Eagle Owl back in the early 90's in Sheffield that hung around a chuchyard taking out grey squirrels, the local cats and even rumour has it attacked a yorkie and a child in a neighbouring school! The only question would be, was your bird wild or did it come from feral/captive stock? Hence all Eagle Owl records are treated as Category D.
But I digress.., I think it is great that David brought it to the attention of all birders of this forum that there may be an Alpine Chough out there.
Just a shame I can't go search for it, as I am 13,000 miles away in Japan!
Sean
Hiroshima
I for one haven't outright pooh-poohed the idea of the bird being an ALPINE CHOUGH. I for one would love it if it was. However, the odds are stacked against it being one wouldn't you say, given their largely resident status in montane areas, with very little movement even altitudinally. oreover, if it is the same bird as in James's pics, it seems that it is a Red-billed Chough, see previous post for reasons why.
It is great that David picked up on this bird being different to the other Chough there.
I told my friend jogresh, as he is the assistant warden at Conwy and knows the appropriate N Wales RSPB staff. Now just because they didn't know about it, (in the same way that the pics are inconclusive) doesn't mean it can't still be an Alpine Chough, as they are busy people I guess, doing reserve maintenance, helpingout visitors etc. and don't always have time for birding . Now they know they'll keep an eye out for the bird too, and hopefully will be able to get more evidence on whether it is an aberrant chough or an Alpine.
I for one wholeheartedly believe you may have had an Eagle Owl at the bottom of your garden. They have bred in neighbouring Derbyshire in recent years and although I didn't see it, there was a notorious Eagle Owl back in the early 90's in Sheffield that hung around a chuchyard taking out grey squirrels, the local cats and even rumour has it attacked a yorkie and a child in a neighbouring school! The only question would be, was your bird wild or did it come from feral/captive stock? Hence all Eagle Owl records are treated as Category D.
But I digress.., I think it is great that David brought it to the attention of all birders of this forum that there may be an Alpine Chough out there.
Just a shame I can't go search for it, as I am 13,000 miles away in Japan!
Sean
Hiroshima
JimMorris
Registered User
Alpine Chough
Hi Sean
Perhaps I was a little too blunt but as a comparatively newcomer myself I felt that David was being put down by a few. I agree with what you have said in your post and and did not mean to upset anyone. I'm one of those people that occasionally engage my mouth before the brain but I'm to old to change.
I did not know that Eagle Owls had bred in Derbyshire and I'm only 10 miles from the county border its quite possible as it's all farmland and woods around here.
Happy Birding
lostinjapan said:
Hi Sean
Perhaps I was a little too blunt but as a comparatively newcomer myself I felt that David was being put down by a few. I agree with what you have said in your post and and did not mean to upset anyone. I'm one of those people that occasionally engage my mouth before the brain but I'm to old to change.
I did not know that Eagle Owls had bred in Derbyshire and I'm only 10 miles from the county border its quite possible as it's all farmland and woods around here.
Happy Birding
Henstooth
Well-known member
Just picked this thread up on another site.
14/04/2007 11:41:33 by scarswell
Hello all. I'm not a twitcher per se, but I enjoy watching and listening to the birds around my home. Lately though I've spotted a strange bird which I've never seen or heard before, and I wondered if anyone could shed light on what it may be.
I live next to a lake and trees in rural shropshire and so there are all sorts of birds around. In the last couple of weeks I've noticed a new, strange bird around, usually on my or my neighbour's roof.
It is about the same size and colour as a blackbird. It has a pronounced beak and strange black and white markings on its wings. But its call is the strangest thing. It alternates between chirping and strange clicking sounds.
I've never seen anything like it. But more importantly, it seems to be the only one around here. It spends hours sitting on roofs and trees, chipring and clicking but never gets a response.
In your opinion is it a rare native bird or a visitor who has lost its way?
I'm very keen for any ideas you may have.
Now...I have suggested that the person go on the RSPB site and type in several bird names including the Chough. I intimated that it might be an albino marked Blackbird. He will keep me posted.
Pete
14/04/2007 11:41:33 by scarswell
Hello all. I'm not a twitcher per se, but I enjoy watching and listening to the birds around my home. Lately though I've spotted a strange bird which I've never seen or heard before, and I wondered if anyone could shed light on what it may be.
I live next to a lake and trees in rural shropshire and so there are all sorts of birds around. In the last couple of weeks I've noticed a new, strange bird around, usually on my or my neighbour's roof.
It is about the same size and colour as a blackbird. It has a pronounced beak and strange black and white markings on its wings. But its call is the strangest thing. It alternates between chirping and strange clicking sounds.
I've never seen anything like it. But more importantly, it seems to be the only one around here. It spends hours sitting on roofs and trees, chipring and clicking but never gets a response.
In your opinion is it a rare native bird or a visitor who has lost its way?
I'm very keen for any ideas you may have.
Now...I have suggested that the person go on the RSPB site and type in several bird names including the Chough. I intimated that it might be an albino marked Blackbird. He will keep me posted.
Pete
David Smith
Warrington Lancs
As the person who posted the original thread I thought I should post another comment. I have just spent 10 days on Anglesey (got back 2 hours ago). I obviously spent some time around South Stack but didn't manage to spot the thing (yellow beaked Chough).
There have been some really nice comments posted (both positive & negative) and this is good-as I said I don't mind being wrong.
What does get up my 'proverbial' is that some (just a few) people seem more interested in spouting off their superior knowledge than in the pure joy of watching these beautiful creatures. Knowledge is good and important-In the short time I have been involved I have had much good help & advice on this forum-but I do get the impression that some have lost site of the original reason they got interested in birds and I would think they have also lost some of the original joy this gave them.
There have been some really nice comments posted (both positive & negative) and this is good-as I said I don't mind being wrong.
What does get up my 'proverbial' is that some (just a few) people seem more interested in spouting off their superior knowledge than in the pure joy of watching these beautiful creatures. Knowledge is good and important-In the short time I have been involved I have had much good help & advice on this forum-but I do get the impression that some have lost site of the original reason they got interested in birds and I would think they have also lost some of the original joy this gave them.
Henstooth
Well-known member
Knowledge is Power...I can't remember who said that? Oh! I just did!!
David..You came online to get knowledge. Some have this knowledge...the majority don't. I read these threads to get knowlegde and from all of them I get something. I want to learn as much as I can so I will keep track of all the threats I can, this one included. Don't be put off by some that speak from higher places...(not like mountains and all), but from what they perceive as a higher level of knowledge. Take what you want, dismiss what you want. I got a propper "forum threat kickin" when I listed a thread in ignorance. It hurt but I believe deep down that what perople where trying to do was educate me. Perhaps their style, or more likely the format of forum, didn't carry their intentions very well...
Pete (Ps...I want to know what this bird you saw was. The other person on another site forum is interested as well)
David..You came online to get knowledge. Some have this knowledge...the majority don't. I read these threads to get knowlegde and from all of them I get something. I want to learn as much as I can so I will keep track of all the threats I can, this one included. Don't be put off by some that speak from higher places...(not like mountains and all), but from what they perceive as a higher level of knowledge. Take what you want, dismiss what you want. I got a propper "forum threat kickin" when I listed a thread in ignorance. It hurt but I believe deep down that what perople where trying to do was educate me. Perhaps their style, or more likely the format of forum, didn't carry their intentions very well...
Pete (Ps...I want to know what this bird you saw was. The other person on another site forum is interested as well)
