Alpha-class binocs? (25 Viewers)

[crinklystarfish]

A
Ludicrously
Phoney
Hierarchical
Accolade

 

[GPOSurujh]

Yes, that's correct. "alpha" means the most expensive binocular. EL is sub-alpha now.

If you want more power than 8x but less than 10x than the EL is pretty much your only choice. The Maven 9x45 would be another, and I believe GSO makes an 8.5x as well, that's about it. The optics in those aren't as good as the Swaro.

"GPO" makes an 8.5x50 in the PASSION HD series.

 

[Trinovid]

Thank you! I have heard about this, and it is a concern. I also read that it can be mitigated by adjusting the angle and position of the binoculars with respect to your face and eyes. Wearing my glasses when viewing might make it worse. It is one of the first things I will experiment with.

As another member already pointed out, advice from denko is a very mixed bag, with most of it discardable. Of all the members here on Ignore, he's at the top of the list. Look at this rubbish I just copied. The Leica 7x42 HD+ is an excellent binocular and denko is a joke across the entire forum.
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[email protected] said:
You are ignoring content by this member.
"Especially the Swarovski Habicht 7x42 GA. It just crucified the new Leica UVHD+ 7x42 I compared it with. I had the Leica boxed up for return in less than an hour!"

 

[Isthatascratch?]

As another member already pointed out, advice from denko is a very mixed bag, with most of it discardable. Of all the members here on Ignore, he's at the top of the list. Look at this rubbish I just copied. The Leica 7x42 HD+ is an excellent binocular and denko is a joke across the entire forum.
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[email protected] said:
You are ignoring content by this member.
"Especially the Swarovski Habicht 7x42 GA. It just crucified the new Leica UVHD+ 7x42 I compared it with. I had the Leica boxed up for return in less than an hour!"

I know the world would be more dull and less interesting without Denco in it!

 

[Paultricounty]

Absolute rubbish, the above from denco.
I've tried all the NL models and any glare that may be found on certain models can be virtually eliminated with careful use.
No glare using my 12x42NL.

It is rubbish, and very misleading for those who come for real opinions. 50%+ what he says is rubbish. It all depends on pre- or post-sale.

I have all the bins being discussed here and put them side by side on a weekly basis , if not daily. I observe with over a dozen others every week and nine out of ten have no glare issues with NL or EL. It’s individual and angle. Are they more prone to glare than some others? Yes, but nothing than angle adjustment doesn’t cure. Definitely not a deal breaker for 90% of the people. I’ve had many more people complain of tunnel vision in Habicht 7x42, many say not a great birding bin for multiple reason and blackouts in SF’s as well as MHG.

One has to remember our Dennis generally doesn’t compare bins side by side and if he does, it’s back in the box for return in five minute's as he has many times. That tells you all you need to know. Also he’s not selling the one he’s criticizing right now.

 

[agus_m]

It is rubbish, and very misleading for those who come for real opinions. 50%+ what he says is rubbish. It all depends on pre- or post-sale.

I have all the bins being discussed here and put them side by side on a weekly basis , if not daily. I observe with over a dozen others every week and nine out of ten have no glare issues with NL or EL. It’s individual and angle. Are they more prone to glare than some others? Yes, but nothing than angle adjustment doesn’t cure. Definitely not a deal breaker for 90% of the people. I’ve had many more people complain of tunnel vision in Habicht 7x42, many say not a great birding bin for multiple reason and blackouts in SF’s as well as MHG.

One has to remember our Dennis generally doesn’t compare bins side by side and if he does, it’s back in the box for return in five minute's as he has many times. That tells you all you need to know. Also he’s not selling the one he’s criticizing right now.

mmm, I am sure you can also minimize CA problems or blackouts with properly adjusting the angle/ipd, etc. Also, it might be the case that older people see less glare because their pupils don't dilate very much, etc. The fact that people might not use the binoculars in the most optimal way possible should be taken into account when designing a binocular.

edit: I think the glare problem with the NL pure is real for some individuals. The fact that it requires such a process to minimize it, compared to just grabbing the binos and watching (like with other brands) is a real problem. The same with the blackouts problems with other binos, you can't "force" someone to just accept that they have to be super careful with eye positioning to avoid blackouts.

 

[[email protected]]

Absolute rubbish, the above from denco.
I've tried all the NL models and any glare that may be found on certain models can be virtually eliminated with careful use.
No glare using my 12x42NL.

I could reduce the glare a little on the NL's if I was very careful on how I place my eyes against the binocular and if I kept the binoculars level, but the minute I changed the angle or sometimes if I did nothing at all the glare would return to the bottom of the FOV. Who wants to be THAT careful to avoid glare. With the Nikon HG 8x42, I don't have those problems with glare and for that reason I enjoy the binoculars much more. Also, comparing the NL 8x32 to the HG 8x42 I had much easier eye placement and the HG was noticeably brighter than the NL even in the daytime and I don't care what people say about a 32mm being just as bright as a 42mm in the daytime it was not.

I noticed right away the HG was brighter than the NL, even in the daytime. On top of it, the HG 8x42 is just as light as the NL 8x32, and you have the huge advantage of the bigger 42mm aperture. Also, I personally despise the FP strap attachments. I will take regular binocular lugs any day of the week. The FP get twisted all the time, and they are a PIA to deal with. I don't care for the goofy overdone side load Swarovski case either. The FOV on the Nikon HG 8x42 is 435 feet, which is hardly any smaller than the FOV of the NL 8x32 which is 450 feet. So for my uses I saved $1200, and I like the HG 8x42 better than the NL 8x32. The only advantage the NL 8x32 had for me over the HG 8x42 was slightly sharper edges.

 

[[email protected]]

Absolute rubbish, the above from denco.
I've tried all the NL models and any glare that may be found on certain models can be virtually eliminated with careful use.
No glare using my 12x42NL.

Check jackjack's picture and comments. He calls the NL and EL glare monsters also! The bigger aperture NL 42mm are better than the NL 32mm, but I still had glare with the NL 10x42. It depends on how your eyes fit the binoculars and how deep or shallow your eye sockets are and if you stand on your head or not!

 

[[email protected]]

It is rubbish, and very misleading for those who come for real opinions. 50%+ what he says is rubbish. It all depends on pre- or post-sale.

I have all the bins being discussed here and put them side by side on a weekly basis , if not daily. I observe with over a dozen others every week and nine out of ten have no glare issues with NL or EL. It’s individual and angle. Are they more prone to glare than some others? Yes, but nothing than angle adjustment doesn’t cure. Definitely not a deal breaker for 90% of the people. I’ve had many more people complain of tunnel vision in Habicht 7x42, many say not a great birding bin for multiple reason and blackouts in SF’s as well as MHG.

One has to remember our Dennis generally doesn’t compare bins side by side and if he does, it’s back in the box for return in five minute's as he has many times. That tells you all you need to know. Also he’s not selling the one he’s criticizing right now.

I compared the NL 8x32 side by side with the HG 8x42 before I decided which one to sell. The NL hit the chopping block. Check jackjack's pictures and his comments on the EL and NL. From his pictures, you can SEE the glare in the Swarovski's. Jackjack calls the EL's GLARE MONSTERS! Jackjack doesn't even think a Leica should be considered an alpha! Haha!

Here are some glare tests done by jackjack comparing the CHD 8x32, SFL 8x30 and the EL 8x32. Notice how the Swarovski EL 8x32 is a glare monster. Swarovski's in general are more glare prone compared to other binoculars.

9. Glare suppression

CHD 8x32

SFL 8x30

EL 8x32

"Yes, 8x32mm Swaro is a glare monster. It can be really distracting while seeing birds against bright light. EL is the longest and narrowest bino between the three, but it does have a frustrating result on glare suppression. CHD is significantly better than EL, but SFL is a gem of glare suppression considering the small size. Between SFL 8x30and Leica UVHD+ 8x32, the Leica has best glare suppression for its compact size but SFL appeared to be close to its performance"

​

 

[[email protected]]

mmm, I am sure you can also minimize CA problems or blackouts with properly adjusting the angle/ipd, etc. Also, it might be the case that older people see less glare because their pupils don't dilate very much, etc. The fact that people might not use the binoculars in the most optimal way possible should be taken into account when designing a binocular.

edit: I think the glare problem with the NL pure is real for some individuals. The fact that it requires such a process to minimize it, compared to just grabbing the binos and watching (like with other brands) is a real problem. The same with the blackouts problems with other binos, you can't "force" someone to just accept that they have to be super careful with eye positioning to avoid blackouts.

Exactly! Why should I stand on my head to minimize glare when using an NL when I can use an HG standing on my feet?

 

[Paultricounty]

mmm, I am sure you can also minimize CA problems or blackouts with properly adjusting the angle/ipd, etc. Also, it might be the case that older people see less glare because their pupils don't dilate very much, etc. The fact that people might not use the binoculars in the most optimal way possible should be taken into account when designing a binocular.

Absolutely I agree. Many of these things can and are adjustable by learning the characteristics of the optics. I was just making the observation that I had fewer people complaining about glare in Swaros than I had with people complaining about uncomfortable eye boxes (blackout, kidney beaning) and CA with some binoculars. Age can be a big factor as well, but not always the same if you know what I mean? For example, I've had young and old people see CA in some binos and other young and old people that don't in the same bins. So much is individual.

edit: I think the glare problem with the NL pure is real for some individuals. The fact that it requires such a process to minimize it, compared to just grabbing the binos and watching (like with other brands) is a real problem. The same with the blackouts problems with other binos, you can't "force" someone to just accept that they have to be super careful with eye positioning to avoid blackouts.

Each of these negative characteristics (I hesitate to call them design flaws, maybe weaknesses would be a better description) can be dealbreakers for many, but it does seem to me at least that for the majority, glare isn't a dealbreaker in the Swaros. I experienced more dealbreakers with eyebox issues. I've had more people complain about the NL's eyebox than glare. Go figure.

 

[phiba]

I feel like I have joined a round table of old friends! How fun!

My new ELs are supposed to arrive today. I’m looking forward to trying them out and seeing just how good or bad they really are.

 

[Maljunulo]

The fact that people might not use the binoculars in the most optimal way possible should be taken into account when designing a binocular.

I disagree.

I think that it is incumbent upon the user of a device to take the trouble to learn how to use that device correctly.

 

[claves_10]

I feel like I have joined a round table of old friends! How fun!

My new ELs are supposed to arrive today. I’m looking forward to trying them out and seeing just how good or bad they really are.

.
What magnification and objective size did you get? After so much discussion without trying to help your original doubt, made me loose track.
Keep us updated once you get them

 

[phiba]

.
What magnification and objective size did you get? After so much discussion without trying to help your original doubt, made me loose track.

I am getting the EL 8.5x42. It will live mostly in our camper van, and be used to view wildlife around San Francisco Bay. We have started to see bald eagles for the first time in our neighborhood, and I’m looking forward to getting a better view of them.

 

[Paultricounty]

Especially the Swarovski Habicht 7x42 GA. It just crucified the new Leica UVHD+ 7x42 I compared it with. I had the Leica boxed up for return in less than an hour!

But the MHG is a step-up in glare resistance, a step-up in FOV with an 8.3 degree FOV instead of a puny 7.6 degrees FOV, no stupid FP strap attachments, the armor won't peel off, and it is 6 oz. lighter for $1000 less. That is a no-brainer, I think!

Why didn’t you return the Habicht because of the tiny FOV that you're complaining about on the Swaro? Don’t answer; we all know 🙄.

Funny thing you said I should compare the 7x42 UV+ to the Swaro Habicht; I did, and unlike you, I do daily.

Both excel in different areas and each have their own wonderful characteristics. As much as I love my Habicht’s, the UV’s are a much better all-around optic.


MHG is excellent upper mid-level glass, maybe the best in its class, but unfortunately is not on the same level as the other two next to it.

 

[Maljunulo]

I am getting the EL 8.5x42. It will live mostly in our camper van, and be used to view wildlife around San Francisco Bay. We have started to see bald eagles for the first time in our neighborhood, and I’m looking forward to getting a better view of them.

I think you have chosen a topnotch binocular, which you should enjoy for many years.

Use it often and well, paying no attention to the (often) carping criticism of just about everything here.

When I bought my EL SV 10X42, I probably should have bought the 8.5.

 

[tenex]

Lucky they didn't use 'e'.

Or h...