About The British Military's Binoculars Used In Post War? (2 Viewers)

[Derpanzer]

Hello everybody, had watched the post as follow：
1.Royal Navy current use binoculars?
2.modern military binoculars
and thanks for the information with them.

But, what did UK Army used in post war till 1982?
Some No.2 MKIII were renew and used until 1980s, and difficult to find a good grade one now. Maybe It was used by Reserve unit more widely？ So what type used by standing force such as BAOR？

AVIMO 7X42 was issued in 1979 and seemed Malvinas War in 1982. But a photo shows an other type which I can not tell…

Was it used by UK expeditionary force really? What is its type?

Another photo show as this


someone tell me it is Steiner Military 8X30R, but the anti-slip lines show they are not very same. Indeed, the former seems more like Steiner Fero D12?


I felt faint now. Thanks for pushing the dense fog aside.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Derpanzer,

Are you assuming that the three photos are official British military photos from the Falklands era, and are therefore historically accurate?

Clearly the first is a commercially produced photo to illustrate an article, taken sometime after the war ended.
The director would have instructed the assistant to get a map and binoculars that looked appropriate enough for the shoot.

As to the next two, who knows where they’re from? Perhaps from military re-enactors? e.g. there's two different patterns of camouflage used.

And whatever the origins of the photos, their WeChat labels (微信图片) indicate that they all recently crossed the Great Firewall of China
. . . so?


John

 

[Derpanzer]

Thanks for your reply!
So… you are right. But believe me, what is more difficult to crossing the Great Wall is making clear about UK military binoculars.
The 1st photo comes from The Falkland War Day by Day(1983, Marshall Cavendish, Ltd..)
The 2nd comes from The Uniforms Illustrated Vol.10, The Paras(1985, Arms and Amours Press.)
The 3rd comes from website of UK MOD

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Derpanzer,

Yes, the 3rd image is an official MOD image, with the full title:
‘Old and new. On the left are the new Steiner Military 8×30 R binoculars, on the right the Avimo General Purpose Binocular L12A1 7x42 first issued to the Army in 1979. Lightweight and ergonomic Steiner Military 8×30 R binoculars. Designed to be easier to hold, the new models are 50% lighter than the previous issue, but still offer increased magnification to give better situational awareness.’

The full details are at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/..._issued_to_the_Army_in_1979._MOD_45158978.jpg

The image goes with the MOD announcement of 17th January 2014, about the adoption of more than 15,000 Steiner 8x30 R binoculars,
see at: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-army-kit-helps-soldiers-see-more-clearly

- - - -
The second image has to be from before when the book was published in 1985. So the Paras may have bought some of the then current Steiners either to supplement the Avimos, or because they were dissatisfied with the Avimos.

- - - -
And with the first image, my previous observation would still apply. The book presumedly has a mix of photos from various sources, including from the military and the press, and where needed the publisher would have had extra photos made.

John

 

[jring]

Hi,

the pair in the first image looks a lot like a CF pair of Habicht GA - no idea what size and obviously w/o the modern silver hawk logo and the Swarovski printing on the bridge rubber guard.

No idea whether british forces used Swaro back then either as general issue or in limited numbers for whoever important... also the fact that it's CF makes it less probable to be an "official" pair of military bins...

The pair in the second image looks like a german Fero D12 - the much-hated plastic bins supplied by Steiner to german army...

Joachim

 

[Sebzwo]

I own a pair of Steiner Military/Marine 7x50 Commander since a very long time and they are not as bad as claimed. Optically they are certainly not alpha class for sure but they were never meant to be. They were purpose built: Affordable, as good as needed, expendable binoculars made for the then feared for WW3. Mine last forever without any maintenance they are truly water proof and super robust, as in very high g tolerant.

 

[jring]

Hi,

as for the Fero D12 - when I was in the german army, two of my roommates were optical repairmen. They always had a few cases of beer stashed away which they got for repairing the old Hensoldt DF bins of the whole division with scrounged away parts because nobody wanted the D12 which was the standard issue at the time...

And the D12 was not repairable and broke in astonishing numbers... probably not on purpose because it was always replaced with a new D12 as the old DF pairs were supposed to be returned to the arsenal... which never happened... even when they were beyond repair, they were "lost" and broken up for parts...

Joachim

 

[Sebzwo]

If I had the choice between a traditional high quality Hensoldt Fero and some mass produced plastic Steiner I'd pick the first one as well. And being repairman I'd hate this 1970s throw away concept making my job redundant even more.

 

[John A Roberts]

Steiner vs Avimo?

I’ve attached a specification sheet for each:
The Seiner’s is from their 2020 catalogue at: https://www.steiner-optics.com/download-catalog
The Avimo’s is from an interesting 5 screen series on flickr by Frank, aka LPT here on BF; search using Avimo and flickr

And also see the MOD image enlarged, cropped and lightened to better compare the two


While the Steiner is better on many measurements - and has the advantages associated with being more recent production by 35 years -
the difference in exit pupil size would seem to be significantly in favour of the Avimo
i.e. a diameter of 3.75 mm vs 6 mm, which importantly translates to an area of 11 mm sq vs 28.3 mm sq - so nearly 3 times the area for the Avimo!

Military binoculars are frequently used in low light conditions, including around sunrise and sunset; two preferred times for an attack
And they are also frequently used in circumstances involving physical exertion and great psychological stress
So it’s not hard to imagine the advantages of a much larger EP

In keeping with this, for much of the preceding century, the binoculars chosen for general purpose infantry use were often of similar specifications, such as 6x30, 7x35 and 7x42. These important choices were typically based on both considerable research along with field trails
e.g. for a starting point see the observations and work of Holger Merlitz at: http://www.holgermerlitz.de/bino_performance/bino_performance.html

. . . so as to the MOD’s claim that the Steiner ' . . . offer(s) increased magnification to give better situational awareness.' ?


John

p.s. a 1 Mb 23 page history of the development of the Avimo - initially as a roof prism design - can be found on the Vacani’s fascinating site
Binocular & Cine Collection at: http://www.binoculars-cinecollectors.com/html/body_binoculars.html
The link to the PDF history about the Avimo is at the bottom of the page under the heading 'Articles by Anna & Terry Vacani'
See an x-ray image of the prototype’s construction

 

[Derpanzer]

…thanks everybody, Now I understand why UK modern military binoculars are so rare in market…

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Joachim (post #5),

While various European militaries have officially issued Habicht Porro prism binoculars - including Austria (unsurprisingly), along with Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway - to my knowledge Britain has not been among them.

The countries have used:
• a variety of magnifications, 6x30, 8x30N, 8x30W, 7x42 and 7x42B
• with either leatherette or later RA coverings (starting in the 1970’s)
• almost always fitted with a reticle, and
• often with laser filters on the more recent ones (from the 1980’s on)
Though one thing in common is that they’re all individual focus.

While the British military has never 'officially' issued Habicht hand held binoculars, that does not mean none have ever been used anywhere at anytime. Excluding any privately owned units, if the perceived need is great enough, military organisations have always officially, semi-officially or otherwise sought to acquire the tools that they consider necessary for a particular task.

In addition, modern special forces as part of their constant preparation cycle, routinely test equipment in anticipation of evolving needs (again the mission determines the equipment). They then add to their inventory what may prove to be useful.

- - - -
The change to the current style of markings and badging on the Habicht line was in 1994. As to what a centre focus 8x30W RA unit looked like prior to that, see an example from a 2015 eBay listing by Igrescue. It clearly differs in detail to the unit in the first post.

Interestingly, while this particular binocular predates the introduction of alpha-numeric numbering in 1991, it can be precisely dated to 1984. That was the year when the new air-sealed/ gas-filled version was introduced, which is identifiable by the the valve screw caps on the front bridge arms. The very earliest production like this one, retained the narrow arms of the previous units. Shortly afterward the arms were widened to the type still in use.


John

 

[John A Roberts]

And a technical qualification to the above . . .

Both British land and sea forces have used Swarovski Porro prism 30x75 binocular telescopes:

. . . You’re remembering the Swarovski 30x75 DT (doppel teleskop) binoculars used by the British military
They differed in cosmetic detail to the commercial versions, as can be seen in the images
(the first image is from a 2017 ebay listing by camera-gentleman)
(the second from Henry Link, see: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2348796&postcount=6 )
. . .

And also see a 30x75 DT that saw service on the SS Canberra (that was requestioned for use during the Falklands campaign),
the unit is number 2 of 6 that were used, and the images are from:

A PAIR OF 30 X 75 BRIDGE BINOCULARS BY SWAROVSKI UNDERSTOOD TO HAVE BEEN USED ABOARD THE CANBERRA

Bid Live on Lot 101 in the Maritime and Scientific Models, Instruments & Art Auction from Charles Miller.

www.the-saleroom.com

John

 

[John A Roberts]

And for completeness . . .

In the early 1950’s Switzerland acquired a small number of 6x30 Habichts, with eyepiece housings modified to the usual Swiss style.
The units that I’ve seen have serial numbers from 'Nr. 59' to 'Nr. 462', and all are marked '1952'.

See unit Nr. 93 from franksbinoculars:

https://flic.kr/p/MpwXoG

John

 

[jring]

Hi John,

thank you for the lecture on military Swaro bins - much appreciated!

So I guess we're back to square one for image number one... unless we can find even older Swaro GA versions looking more like it... as actually 1984 seems to be a bit early to have been photographed in 1987 and looked that scruffy...

Joachim

 

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

John

For completeness I think it's fair to add the french Navy used 7x50 SL from Swaro with individual focus. Technically that's still a Habicht Porro isn't it?

Cheers
zp*

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Joachim (post #14),

Considering the time period and the styling, I’d assume that the binocular in the first image is a low cost generic Zeiss pattern, made in Japan.

The RA looks like a later add-on to the original design, especially in the strange way that the outside end of the focuser arms are enclosed.
And the small turn down that’s possible with the eyecups suggests very short eye relief.

Turning the image 90 degrees makes things a bit clearer, and may help someone identify the brand (perhaps British) or the manufacturer.


In relation to the RA option on the Habichts, the timeline is as follows:
7x42 IF in 1971; 10x40W IF in 1972, 7x42 CF and 10x40W CF both in 1976; 8x30N IF and CF and 8x30W IF and CF, all around 1983, and; 7x42B IF on it's introduction around 1985.

- - - -
Hi ZP (post #15),

That's the trickiness of the word - at one time Swarovski described and marked just about everything that it made as 'Habicht'! *
In contrast, the word is now only used by the company to describe the traditional pattern Porro prism binoculars that it still produces.

Consequently, I usually describe the metal bodied Porro prisms binoculars collectively as the ‘Traditional' models, since:
• not all of the previous production was marked Habicht, and
• the current special production IF models are also not marked Habicht.


In relation to the current traditional style Porros, there is both:
A) Regular Commercial CF Production
Many are familiar with these. They are made in both black/ leatherette and green/ RA versions.
They are marked Habicht on the left prism plate, along with Swarovski on the axle, and have the Habicht (hawk) badge on the left side of the main body.

B) Limited Special IF Production
These are rare, as with the advent of the airtight CF version in 1984, there is little demand for an IF version. They are offered on a contract basis to military or other government agencies. They are in a green/ RA finish, and the only corporate marking is Swarovski on the left prism plate cover.
Notwithstanding the units are only marked Swarovski, in the factory literature they are also described the Habicht model;
see 2 pages from a February 2021 brochure for government purchasers.


And you're of course correct about the SL line of binoculars. They used the Traditional lenses and Porro prisms in a radical plastic composition body.
Both the Commercial CF production, and the Military IF production for the French Navy were clearly marked Habicht
(for examples and details see: https://www.birdforum.net/threads/swarovski-sl-porro-models.382302/ ).


John


* To illustrate the once widespread use of the term Habicht, see a Swarovski catalogue cover from the mid 1980's . . .

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

John Roberts, post 9,
The Avimo 7x40 is also made under the name Rollei 7x40 and is now made by a Russian company. I ave investigated the Rollei 7x40 in comparison with other (military) 7x40 binoculars, you can find the resuts on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor. In that test is als a more interesting (in my opinion) 7x45 PZO porro, very well made and very goor optical quality.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Hans Weigum]

And for completeness . . .

In the early 1950’s Switzerland acquired a small number of 6x30 Habichts, with eyepiece housings modified to the usual Swiss style.
The units that I’ve seen have serial numbers from 'Nr. 59' to 'Nr. 462', and all are marked '1952'.

See unit Nr. 93 from franksbinoculars:

https://flic.kr/p/MpwXoG

John

Hallo John

Do you have an explanation, why the Swiss Army had then been procuring such a small batch of only 500 pcs., when long time earlier and later Kern was the only supplier of considerable larger quantities?

Hans Weigum

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Hans,

Apart from what I’ve posted about the particular run of Habichts I don’t have any other specific information. Although it does seem to me that the Swiss have long attached considerable importance to the military use of binoculars (in current idiom, their value as a force multiplier) *

This leads to the thought that the batch of DV (dual layer) coated Habichts may have been purchased for widespread field testing. At the time, dual layer coating was the state-of-the-art in optical coating. It's advantage over single coating, especially in low contrast and low light conditions, would have been potentially significant in military usage.

DV coating (also known as Transmax) was developed in the immediate post-WWII period by Optics Balzers of Lichtenstein. And Swarovski seems to have had exclusive use of it, at least on binoculars. See a pair of graphs showing the performance of single, dual and three layer coatings. They’re from pages 439 and 442 of ‘Coatings on Glass’ by H.K. Pulker, who was a long-time Optics Balzers employee.

For more details about the coating, including its performance on Habicht units tested by Gijs, see post #18 and on at: 3 New 8x30 Reviews by Holger Merlitz


* As you know, traditional Swiss defensive considerations have included factors such as: the geographical location in relation to western, central and southern Europe; the terrain and topography; the small size and composition of the military (mainly reservists); the value of evident preparedness for deterrence, and; the anticipated form of any engagement.


John

 

[Hans Weigum]

Hi Hans,

Apart from what I’ve posted about the particular run of Habichts I don’t have any other specific information. Although it does seem to me that the Swiss have long attached considerable importance to the military use of binoculars (in current idiom, their value as a force multiplier) *

This leads to the thought that the batch of DV (dual layer) coated Habichts may have been purchased for widespread field testing. At the time, dual layer coating was the state-of-the-art in optical coating. It's advantage over single coating, especially in low contrast and low light conditions, would have been potentially significant in military usage.

DV coating (also known as Transmax) was developed in the immediate post-WWII period by Optics Balzers of Lichtenstein. And Swarovski seems to have had exclusive use of it, at least on binoculars. See a pair of graphs showing the performance of single, dual and three layer coatings. They’re from pages 439 and 442 of ‘Coatings on Glass’ by H.K. Pulker, who was a long-time Optics Balzers employee.

For more details about the coating, including its performance on Habicht units tested by Gijs, see post #18 and on at: 3 New 8x30 Reviews by Holger Merlitz


* As you know, traditional Swiss defensive considerations have included factors such as: the geographical location in relation to western, central and southern Europe; the terrain and topography; the small size and composition of the military (mainly reservists); the value of evident preparedness for deterrence, and; the anticipated form of any engagement.


John

Hallo John

An exclusivity agreement between Balzers and Swarovski concerning coating of optical glass seems to be a very likely reasons for this particular procurement, hindering Kern access to a technology leader. The village of Balzers, beeing within Switzerlands customs borders, would have been economically and geographically much closer to Kern than Swarovski. I was surprised to learn, that the company Balzers, originally dealing with vacuum technology, developping later all types of coatings, now has a separate optical division.

Hans