6 January 2022 - New Leica announcement (1 Viewer)

[GrampaTom]

So according to your observation, Leica improved their Ultravid line considerably, without advertising the fact? Just by suddenly making improved batches with no further notice. This doesn't sound good to me at all. I think it's alarming. Think about it. What would this practice mean for the reputation of the company?

Renze this is a very common practice among consumer product manufacturers. Its called a running change. There are lots of very good reasons companies do this. Stopping internal and external failure costs, now, are 2. Hits to company reputations from continuing to make substandard and non competitive products matter. Not all product improvements are so big as to warrant the announcement of a new model and devaluation of the old it replaces. The cost hit to the channel of distribution, if it carries substantial inventory that must now be discounted to sell through, could be significant and create ill will towards the maker. Do we expect a maker to recall all the old left unsold models the new replaces? Thats not realistic. We as consumers should know intuitively, buying the newest is more than likely buying the best example of a thing.

 

[NDhunter]

Lots of speculation here, and I think the new product will be a 32mm Noctovid. The Noctovid has not really been much
of a positive for Leica. For the Leica users that post on here, we mostly hear about how great the UV+ models are.
The Perger porro is an interesting exercise, but Leica still lacks in the range finding area, there is lots of competition.
Jerry

 

[eronald]

Noctivid 8x32. I keep my fingers crossed I can see the "true greatness" that is painfully absent from the 42mm Noctivids but still plenty enough in my UV8x32HD+. It´s of course an ironic advertising statement - true greatness does not depend on size etc. There is no room and also no need for smaller Perger designs. It can be done with SP prisms today.

But even if they should miss it again with the Noctivid - which I really hope they will not - Leica is now back on track with the Ultravids anyway which are a paradigm of "true greatness". In my view the UV line is already being updated with every new batch. Because I already have an amazing sample in my hands, a 7x42 HD+ from the new batch which I got 4 days ago. Why upgrade: totally new coatings unlike anything I've seen in a Leica, images with absolute colour, absolute contrast (best flare reduction and NL Pure or Habicht crispness). Deepest 3D in SP prisms like predecessor. Mechanically best UV sample I had, both in the focuser and bridge friction. This will probably be my personal Jahrhundertglas. This evolutionary yet significant upgrade cries for a new designation in the UV line of course. It will conquer new customers for Leica because it is just too good to ignore.

Fits with my observation recently in Wetzlar where an 8x50 HDPlus was way ahead the rest of the crowd in absolute image quality.

Great they don't waste all their energy on rather stupid stuff.

It is possible the new coatings would improve the Noctivid as well

However I do wonder if this a case of "only" the lens coatings changed, or something which involves the prisms ... or maybe the manufacturing technique has also been improved somehow, with better centering etc.

If it is "just" the coatings then we might expect the same improvement to ripple through the other competing alphas, and then downstream; just like multicoating and phase coating in their day.

Edmund

 

[Troubador]

The cost hit to the channel of distribution, if it carries substantial inventory that must now be discounted to sell through, could be significant and create ill will towards the maker. Do we expect a maker to recall all the old left unsold models the new replaces? Thats not realistic. We as consumers should know intuitively, buying the newest is more than likely buying the best example of a thing.

Absolutely right Tom. Imagine how a dealer who has invested in substantial stocks/inventory of a model only for these to become obsolete overnight and needing heavy discounts to move on.
Lee

 

[Bentley03]

The Wetzlar Leica shop had surprisingly few UVs in stock in November, so it might be a couple of new batches coming in. They had no 10x32, no 7x42, no 10x42, 10x50 if I remember correctly. Almost no Retrovids, absolutely no Trinovids. The 8x50 at Wetzlar was very suspicious in hindsight as it was so amazingly good.

For reference, my Ultravid 7x42 HD+ were manufactured in October and my Noctivid 10x42 were manufactured in November. I perceive both to be a little different, optically different (and I believe maybe better?) than the instruments I tested (and in the case of the Noctivid, purchased and returned), but without a side by side comparison with the previous examples I have tried, I can't say why, nor can I be 100% confident that the perceived difference isn't just in my imagination.

Also, I know the retailer I purchased from had ordered my Noctivid back in July, but it was only delivered almost 5 months later on 3rd December.

 

[Hermann]

Well, it's wait and see. If it's indeed a Perger (and NOT a rangefinder) I'll have a very close look at it. The shape looks suspicious and quite unlike a run of the mill SP, so I think there's as high likelihood it's a Perger.

I'm also not sure the wide bridge indicates it's a rangefinder. I always felt the narrow bridge of open bridge designs made making really reliable binoculars with reliable focussers a lot harder. So my hope is it's a conventional binocular ... 👍

Hermann

 

[Renze de Vries]

Renze this is a very common practice among consumer product manufacturers. Its called a running change. There are lots of very good reasons companies do this. Stopping internal and external failure costs, now, are 2. Hits to company reputations from continuing to make substandard and non competitive products matter. Not all product improvements are so big as to warrant the announcement of a new model and devaluation of the old it replaces. The cost hit to the channel of distribution, if it carries substantial inventory that must now be discounted to sell through, could be significant and create ill will towards the maker. Do we expect a maker to recall all the old left unsold models the new replaces? Thats not realistic. We as consumers should know intuitively, buying the newest is more than likely buying the best example of a thing.

Tom,
Yes I know. And leica is no exception to the rule. It's well known for instance that the last Leitz Trinovids with the red badges were better than earlier production Trinovids. But there's sample variation at work as well. I have seen samples of 1960 Trinovids which were so good, I wouldn't swap them for the majority of 1980's.
The trouble here is that Tobias is comparing one recent 7x42 sample to a 5 year old one which exists only in his memory. Also, he has seen one sample of the Ultravid 8x50 HD+ which he calls impressive but as long as I don't have information about the year or batch of production, I don't know what the value of Tobias observation is. Is it really improvid production, or just sample variation?
Too much speculation, I'd say. And unfortunately marred by Tobias tendency for hyperbole, like 'paradigm of true greatness', 'massively improved', 'absolute colour', absolute contrast'.
Absolute? Good gracious.

Renze

 

[Mike F]

I think the new coatings, easily distinguishable by their new colour range......

There has been discussion here on BF in the not too distant past about the colour of coatings and their possible connection to improvements. It was pointed out that lens coatings are made in batches, and the apparent difference in their appearance has no bearing on their performance.

Here are two 12x50 UVHD+ made within a few months of each other that I had my possession for a while a couple of years ago. Quite different colour coatings, absolutely no difference in performance. I had to choose between the two and I chose the slightly earlier sample.

 

[eronald]

Tom,
Yes I know. And leica is no exception to the rule. It's well known for instance that the last Leitz Trinovids with the red badges were better than earlier production Trinovids. But there's sample variation at work as well. I have seen samples of 1960 Trinovids which were so good, I wouldn't swap them for the majority of 1980's.
The trouble here is that Tobias is comparing one recent 7x42 sample to a 5 year old one which exists only in his memory. Also, he has seen one sample of the Ultravid 8x50 HD+ which he calls impressive but as long as I don't have information about the year or batch of production, I don't know what the value of Tobias observation is. Is it really improvid production, or just sample variation?
Too much speculation, I'd say. And unfortunately marred by Tobias tendency for hyperbole, like 'paradigm of true greatness', 'massively improved', 'absolute colour', absolute contrast'.
Absolute? Good gracious.

Renze

I tried some binoculars at Leica St Honoré a few months ago. Side by side. One was a "special edition" UV, a Retrovid, and a normal UV. The normal UV blew me away, it was amazing, the special edition not so much. I was surprised at such a difference, in favor of the cheaper instrument, and the shop employee explained that the normal UV had "the latest coatings". This is also anecdotal evidence of change.

My feeling about the UV generally is that it is a superb, very pleasant to use design, a true classic. I am glad that Leica has decided for the time being to "save" it, keep production evolving, rather than just move to the Noctivid.

If there has really been a change due to coatings, then we can assume it will come to all binoculars in due course, all the top tier makers will need bring out improved versions quickly.

Edmund

 

[jafritten]

There has been discussion here on BF in the not too distant past about the colour of coatings and their possible connection to improvements. It was pointed out that lens coatings are made in batches, and the apparent difference in their appearance has no bearing on their performance.

Here are two 12x50 UVHD+ made within a few months of each other that I had my possession for a while a couple of years ago. Quite different colour coatings, absolutely no difference in performance. I had to choose between the two and I chose the slightly earlier sample.


View attachment 1421871View attachment 1421872

Which one is the earlier one, Mike? Thanks for the pictures.

 

[A2GG]

Well, it's wait and see. If it's indeed a Perger (and NOT a rangefinder) I'll have a very close look at it. The shape looks suspicious and quite unlike a run of the mill SP, so I think there's as high likelihood it's a Perger.

I'm also not sure the wide bridge indicates it's a rangefinder. I always felt the narrow bridge of open bridge designs made making really reliable binoculars with reliable focussers a lot harder. So my hope is it's a conventional binocular ... 👍

Hermann

Look at the focuser and its position (high, close to the oculars); it looks just like the big Geovid. Compare photos of the big Geovid with the new photo. They look to be the same shape and everything positioned the same. A Noctivid 32 wouldn’t look like this IMO.

 

[Loddar]

Look at the focuser and its position (high, close to the oculars); it looks just like the big Geovid. Compare photos of the big Geovid with the new photo. They look to be the same shape and everything positioned the same. A Noctivid 32 wouldn’t look like this IMO.

View attachment 1421882

I was just on the Leica HP and it is probably a new Geovid 3200.
what a pity. I had also hoped for the little Noctivi.
Loddar

 

[A2GG]

I was just on the Leica HP and it is probably a new Geovid 3200.
what a pity. I had also hoped for the little Noctivi.
Loddar

Yes, it has to be a new Geovid. A Noctivid 32 will mirror the 42 with SP design and should appear obvious even in a dark photo.

 

[Ontario]

There has been discussion here on BF in the not too distant past about the colour of coatings and their possible connection to improvements. It was pointed out that lens coatings are made in batches, and the apparent difference in their appearance has no bearing on their performance.

Here are two 12x50 UVHD+ made within a few months of each other that I had my possession for a while a couple of years ago. Quite different colour coatings, absolutely no difference in performance. I had to choose between the two and I chose the slightly earlier sample.


View attachment 1421871View attachment 1421872

My UV 10x42 HD Plus made in Germany and 2017 UV 10x42 HD Plus limited edition made in Portugal had coatings similar to the first picture my UV 8x42 HD Plus made in Germany was similar to the second I emailed Leica USA re the difference they could not explain the dissimilarities wanted me to send them in.

 

[fazalmajid]

I purchased five new UVHD+ models this year, beginning in summer 2021:

8x32 UVHD+ (marked Made in Germany)
10x42 UVHD+ (marked Made in Germany)
10x32 UVHD+ (marked Made in Germany)
7x42 UVHD+ (marked Made in Germany)
8x32 UVHD+ (marked Made in Portugal)

How many Ultravids does a man need?

I thought all Leica binoculars are made in Portugal now, it's quite possible the Made in Germany ones you bought were new-old stock.

I've never had a bad experience with Leica or Swarovski, the only alpha binoculars I ever experienced problems with were a pair of Zeiss HT 8x42 (loose screw rattling in the barrel) and their service was underwhelming as well, unlike Leica's (nothing serious, a torn objective cap and a strap replacement).

 

[ZDHart]

How many Ultravids does a man need?

I thought all Leica binoculars are made in Portugal now, it's quite possible the Made in Germany ones you bought were new-old stock.

I've never had a bad experience with Leica or Swarovski, the only alpha binoculars I ever experienced problems with were a pair of Zeiss HT 8x42 (loose screw rattling in the barrel) and their service was underwhelming as well, unlike Leica's (nothing serious, a torn objective cap and a strap replacement).

In my case, three at present. The first two on the list are enjoyed by others at this time.

My German Ultravids were purchased Summer 2021. My Portugal Ultravid was purchased Fall of 2021.

So my sense is that the transition to the Portugal plant, for Ultravids, likely took place somewhere around late spring or summer 2021? Someone with more definitive information on the date of transition may chime in.

 

[Mike F]

My UV 10x42 HD Plus made in Germany and 2017 UV 10x42 HD Plus limited edition made in Portugal had coatings similar to the first picture my UV 8x42 HD Plus made in Germany was similar to the second I emailed Leica USA re the difference they could not explain the dissimilarities wanted me to send them in.

I have five Leica’s of different sizes made at different times, some marked ‘Made in Portugal’ some marked ‘Made in Germany’. They all have different colour coatings.

 

[Mike F]

Which one is the earlier one, Mike? Thanks for the pictures.

The one with the greenish hue was from very late 2019 and the one with the more purple hue was very early 2020. Of the five binoculars I have, the one with the most similar colour coatings to the later one of those (with the purple hue) is my earliest one - a 10x25 BCA from the mid nineties.

 

[eronald]

I have five Leica’s of different sizes made at different times, some marked ‘Made in Portugal’ some marked ‘Made in Germany’. They all have different colour coatings.

Maybe some insider optics expert can tell us whether improvements in coatings would improve an ultravid visibly, or whether some other silent change could take place that would improve the perception?

 

[Mike F]

Note that I’m not saying there hasn’t been any incremental improvement of Leica optics/coatings over the years, only that you can’t deduce when any such changes may have occurred from the colour of the coatings. But this is all a bit off topic.........