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32 bit float recorders (3 Viewers)

Jason Bugay Reyes

Well-known member
Malaysia
Hio all,

Fellow bird guide asked me for some recommendation regarding recorders and I advised him to get the 32 bit float either from Zoom or Tascam. These two brands are widely available in my place compared with other brands.

May I know, what would you suggest the models from these makers if anyone want to start with bird sound recording that has built in mics and also it would be use with external mic via XLR.

I have the Tascam DR44WL and quite tempted to get the Portacapture X6 😂 but that is me.

Hope to hear from you all. Thanks!
 
Hi, Jason!

I am very happy with the Zoom F3 recorders. They do not have built-in mics, but they are simple to use, small, sturdy, and easy to setup in different hardware configurations. I have two - a handheld setup and a stereo setup that I place and leave for a bit.

My walkabout setup is an F3 with a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic. The F3 is attached to the Rode PG2-R Pistol-grip Shockmount with a velcro band. The mic sits in the shockmount rings on the pistol grip and is connected to the recorder with a Rycote 017018 40cm Microphone Tail with Mogami Quad Cable and Neutrik XX Connectors. The cable is just the right length and diameter for the Rode grip. I've covered the mic with a 22cm Movo WST240 Windscreen. A leather camera strap attached to the grip keeps the setup safe should I drop it.

My stereo rig is an F3 on a small tripod configured with the MicBooster.com Field Recording Kit with XLR Clippy mics, and an external battery suspended from the bottom of the tripod head, between the legs of the tripod. The battery is the Anker Portable Charger, 313 Power Bank (PowerCore Slim 10K) 10000mAh Battery Pack with USB-C. My longest recordings are only two or three hours, and with a fully charged battery, I leave the field with only one bar short of fully charged.

My two most important tips for using the F3 recorders:

1. The choice of memory card DOES matter. I first tried a more expensive, higher-quality card, but the F3 would not record to it. So, I purchased a card recommended on the Zoom website and the F3's record without fail. I am using SanDisk Ultra 256GB Micro SD-XC cards.

2. My early recordings with the F3 recorders occasionally had an odd background noise that I could not understand. It occurred about seven times an hour and lasted 10 seconds each time. I counted the “tick” sounds in each instance, and the ticks repeated at a steady rate of 24 times a second.

Jon Bryant suggested radio frequency interference related to Bluetooth. When I next went out to record, I left my Apple Watch and iPhone in the truck, which solved the mystery. So now, I leave my watch in the truck and turn off Bluetooth on my phone.
 
I have the Tascam DR44WL and quite tempted to get the Portacapture X6 😂 but that is me.
It is really hard to judge how ‘good’ recorders with built in mics will be. The bottom line is that most companies (including Tascam) are pretty quite in their specifications about mic sensitivity etc.

Most devices are designed to record music or vocals from close to, so generally don’t have very sensitive mics. This is not necessarily a problem, as long as you can get the device as close as possible to the bird - but this may be a problem if you intend to hand hold the device.

The bottom line is don’t expect most devices with built-in mics to be great at recording distant sounds, as they are simply not designed with wildlife recordists in mind.

You get far more of an idea what you are buying if you get a separate mic and recorder. In this case the Zoom F3 is not a bad option. It is reasonably priced and very compact, but only has XLR inputs, and some people on this forum have questioned the durability. The Mix-Pre 3ii is the ‘go to’ device for many, but is more expensive and bulkier, but is more of a ‘proper’ field recorder.
 
It is really hard to judge how ‘good’ recorders with built in mics will be. The bottom line is that most companies (including Tascam) are pretty quite in their specifications about mic sensitivity etc.

Most devices are designed to record music or vocals from close to, so generally don’t have very sensitive mics. This is not necessarily a problem, as long as you can get the device as close as possible to the bird - but this may be a problem if you intend to hand hold the device.

The bottom line is don’t expect most devices with built-in mics to be great at recording distant sounds, as they are simply not designed with wildlife recordists in mind.

You get far more of an idea what you are buying if you get a separate mic and recorder. In this case the Zoom F3 is not a bad option. It is reasonably priced and very compact, but only has XLR inputs, and some people on this forum have questioned the durability. The Mix-Pre 3ii is the ‘go to’ device for many, but is more expensive and bulkier, but is more of a ‘proper’ field recorder.

Scenario like this; sound recordings of the wildlife using the built in mics of the Tascam Portacapture 6 or 8 on the floor as per pic (not Portacapture)

Then we edit the 32 bit if the sound too low or too high. Possible?

IMG20240416110719_20240421085655-01.jpeg
 
Hi, Jason!

I am very happy with the Zoom F3 recorders. They do not have built-in mics, but they are simple to use, small, sturdy, and easy to setup in different hardware configurations. I have two - a handheld setup and a stereo setup that I place and leave for a bit.

My walkabout setup is an F3 with a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic. The F3 is attached to the Rode PG2-R Pistol-grip Shockmount with a velcro band. The mic sits in the shockmount rings on the pistol grip and is connected to the recorder with a Rycote 017018 40cm Microphone Tail with Mogami Quad Cable and Neutrik XX Connectors. The cable is just the right length and diameter for the Rode grip. I've covered the mic with a 22cm Movo WST240 Windscreen. A leather camera strap attached to the grip keeps the setup safe should I drop it.

My stereo rig is an F3 on a small tripod configured with the MicBooster.com Field Recording Kit with XLR Clippy mics, and an external battery suspended from the bottom of the tripod head, between the legs of the tripod. The battery is the Anker Portable Charger, 313 Power Bank (PowerCore Slim 10K) 10000mAh Battery Pack with USB-C. My longest recordings are only two or three hours, and with a fully charged battery, I leave the field with only one bar short of fully charged.

My two most important tips for using the F3 recorders:

1. The choice of memory card DOES matter. I first tried a more expensive, higher-quality card, but the F3 would not record to it. So, I purchased a card recommended on the Zoom website and the F3's record without fail. I am using SanDisk Ultra 256GB Micro SD-XC cards.

2. My early recordings with the F3 recorders occasionally had an odd background noise that I could not understand. It occurred about seven times an hour and lasted 10 seconds each time. I counted the “tick” sounds in each instance, and the ticks repeated at a steady rate of 24 times a second.

Jon Bryant suggested radio frequency interference related to Bluetooth. When I next went out to record, I left my Apple Watch and iPhone in the truck, which solved the mystery. So now, I leave my watch in the truck and turn off Bluetooth on my phone.

Thank you so much. I will forward your tips to my friend and this is also useful for my once I have decided to jump into 32 bit float to get either Zoom or Tascam 😍
 
Then we edit the 32 bit if the sound too low or too high. Possible?
I don't think things are not quite that simple.

To use a poor analogy, we could consider that a mic is like a camera lens, where the sensitivity equate to the focal length and the directional performance of the mic, the field of view. In this analogy, gain could be considered to be like exposure (control of shutter speed and lens aperture). With 32 bit float, it would then be the equivalent of not having to bother to control exposure, it would be impossible to have a under or over exposed photo, and everything could be sorted out on your computer after taking the photo. It would not be the same as having an photo with a vast number of pixels that you could blow up to your hearts content.

This analogy is not really right, but would you buy a camera and lens to take a pictures of birds, if you didn't even know the focal length of the lens?

In reality the mic will turn sound into a an electrical signal that the recorder converts and saves in digital formal. The signal from the mic will depend on the specification for the mic (sensitivity, directional, self noise etc.), ambient noise from the recording environment and the strength of the bird vocal (generally how close you area). This mix of signal and noise is 'locked in', and cannot be altered by 32 bit float technology. So if you have a distant bird, a low sensitivity mic and/or noisy mic, and/or a noisy environment, the ratio of signal to noise will be poor come what may. Generally the closer you are to a bird the better the signal to noise ratio.

The bit rate of a recorder defines the quietest thing that can recorded. The bigger the bit rate number the quieter the limit. If you make a mess of the gain and set it far too low, the quieter elements of the signal from the mic may be even quieter than this limit (you would need a bigger number than possible to digitally record the very quite sound). In this case the quite detail cannot be recorded as and you loose this detail. If you try and reset the level afterwards, you can never replace this lost detail and all you do is amplify the noise floor (the quietest thing you can record). With 32 bit float, the noise floor is much quieter, so if is virtually impossible to loose signal below the noise floor (the equivalent of the photo not being able to be under exposed). But also as with a float representation, the number it can be negative as well as positive. With 16 and 24 bit, the noisiest thing you can record would have a value of zero, but with 32 bit float you can have negative numbers to represent even louder sound. This means that whereas you can loose parts of a 16 or 24 bit recording by setting the gain too high (and introducing clipping), with 32 bit float you can save such recordings in post, as the extra loud bits have not actually been lost, but recorded as negative values - of course you need to correct the levels in post, before you can play the file without distortion (the equivalent of the photo not being able to be over exposed).

With all-in-one recorders, there is general lack of detail on what you are buying. What is the sensitivity or the mic, what is the directional performance, what is the self noise?. Without this information only really trial and error can confirm what recorders work best for recording of birds. A bit of a cop out, but you either need to
  1. take a risk and buy something and hope for the best,
  2. find a nice shop where you can perhaps try before you buy (at least in the store), or where staff may be familiar with the device and its pros and cons and can provide expert advice, or
  3. find someone who is using the device already for the same purpose and is willing to provide impartial advice.
Zoom actually do provide more details than most on their all-in-one recorders. Most of their 32 bit float recorders do not have built in mics (F2, F3, F6, F8N Pro). The ones that do seem to have pretty quite mics
  • M2 (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • M3 (unspecified)
  • M4 (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H1 Essential (–43 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H4 Essential (–43 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H6 Essential (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
If we make a rather unfair comparison with a Rode NTG5 shotgun, the sensitivity of that mic -23.5 dB re. 1 Volt/Pascal or Better (66 mV @ 94 dB SPL @ 1 kHz). The lower the figure the more sensitive the mic. I think -42 dB/1 Pa at 1kHz is pretty quite, and that teh devices are therefore probably designed for recording fairly strong signals up close (say a band of an interview). The sensitivity is the equivalent of 7.9433mV dB SPL @ 1 kHz, so the voltage received by the recorder will be 8 x less than from the Rode mic!

I say this is unfair, but their are lots or mics much more sensitive than -42dB/1 Pa - A Clippy EM272 Lavalier mic has a sensitivity of -28dB (39.8mV).

Sensitivity is of course not always a good thing, as despite how directional a mic is, you will generally pic up more unwanted ambient noise (particularly low frequency, which cardiodal and super-cardiodal (shutguns) mics are generally poor at rejecting). We then get back to getting a close as possible being a good option, and at least with 32bit gloat all-in-one recorders, you can potentially conceal the recorder close to a bird with record on, and no worries about gain settings.
 
I don't think things are not quite that simple.

To use a poor analogy, we could consider that a mic is like a camera lens, where the sensitivity equate to the focal length and the directional performance of the mic, the field of view. In this analogy, gain could be considered to be like exposure (control of shutter speed and lens aperture). With 32 bit float, it would then be the equivalent of not having to bother to control exposure, it would be impossible to have a under or over exposed photo, and everything could be sorted out on your computer after taking the photo. It would not be the same as having an photo with a vast number of pixels that you could blow up to your hearts content.

This analogy is not really right, but would you buy a camera and lens to take a pictures of birds, if you didn't even know the focal length of the lens?

In reality the mic will turn sound into a an electrical signal that the recorder converts and saves in digital formal. The signal from the mic will depend on the specification for the mic (sensitivity, directional, self noise etc.), ambient noise from the recording environment and the strength of the bird vocal (generally how close you area). This mix of signal and noise is 'locked in', and cannot be altered by 32 bit float technology. So if you have a distant bird, a low sensitivity mic and/or noisy mic, and/or a noisy environment, the ratio of signal to noise will be poor come what may. Generally the closer you are to a bird the better the signal to noise ratio.

The bit rate of a recorder defines the quietest thing that can recorded. The bigger the bit rate number the quieter the limit. If you make a mess of the gain and set it far too low, the quieter elements of the signal from the mic may be even quieter than this limit (you would need a bigger number than possible to digitally record the very quite sound). In this case the quite detail cannot be recorded as and you loose this detail. If you try and reset the level afterwards, you can never replace this lost detail and all you do is amplify the noise floor (the quietest thing you can record). With 32 bit float, the noise floor is much quieter, so if is virtually impossible to loose signal below the noise floor (the equivalent of the photo not being able to be under exposed). But also as with a float representation, the number it can be negative as well as positive. With 16 and 24 bit, the noisiest thing you can record would have a value of zero, but with 32 bit float you can have negative numbers to represent even louder sound. This means that whereas you can loose parts of a 16 or 24 bit recording by setting the gain too high (and introducing clipping), with 32 bit float you can save such recordings in post, as the extra loud bits have not actually been lost, but recorded as negative values - of course you need to correct the levels in post, before you can play the file without distortion (the equivalent of the photo not being able to be over exposed).

With all-in-one recorders, there is general lack of detail on what you are buying. What is the sensitivity or the mic, what is the directional performance, what is the self noise?. Without this information only really trial and error can confirm what recorders work best for recording of birds. A bit of a cop out, but you either need to
  1. take a risk and buy something and hope for the best,
  2. find a nice shop where you can perhaps try before you buy (at least in the store), or where staff may be familiar with the device and its pros and cons and can provide expert advice, or
  3. find someone who is using the device already for the same purpose and is willing to provide impartial advice.
Zoom actually do provide more details than most on their all-in-one recorders. Most of their 32 bit float recorders do not have built in mics (F2, F3, F6, F8N Pro). The ones that do seem to have pretty quite mics
  • M2 (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • M3 (unspecified)
  • M4 (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H1 Essential (–43 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H4 Essential (–43 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
  • H6 Essential (−42 dB/1 Pa at 1 kHz)
If we make a rather unfair comparison with a Rode NTG5 shotgun, the sensitivity of that mic -23.5 dB re. 1 Volt/Pascal or Better (66 mV @ 94 dB SPL @ 1 kHz). The lower the figure the more sensitive the mic. I think -42 dB/1 Pa at 1kHz is pretty quite, and that teh devices are therefore probably designed for recording fairly strong signals up close (say a band of an interview). The sensitivity is the equivalent of 7.9433mV dB SPL @ 1 kHz, so the voltage received by the recorder will be 8 x less than from the Rode mic!

I say this is unfair, but their are lots or mics much more sensitive than -42dB/1 Pa - A Clippy EM272 Lavalier mic has a sensitivity of -28dB (39.8mV).

Sensitivity is of course not always a good thing, as despite how directional a mic is, you will generally pic up more unwanted ambient noise (particularly low frequency, which cardiodal and super-cardiodal (shutguns) mics are generally poor at rejecting). We then get back to getting a close as possible being a good option, and at least with 32bit gloat all-in-one recorders, you can potentially conceal the recorder close to a bird with record on, and no worries about gain settings.

Appreciate it a lot Joe for the detailed explanation. This will help me to decide which 32 bit to get in the future 😍
 
Outdoors where a bird may be distant and ambient noise may be great the 32-bit recorder is the best available technology. I bought the Zoom F6 and after using it for a day, returned it. The user interface is like something from the 1980's and decades behind that provided by Sound Devices with their MixPre recorders.

What varies is self-noise with recorders (and mics) and the quality of the pre-amps. The better sound recorders are noted for the capabilities of their pre-amps as much as anything else.

I like that I can power my MixPre II recorders with a USB-C cable connected to a small power bank and have it record for many hours.
 

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