10x50- Leica Ultravid vs. Swaro SLC vs. Maven B6 (2 Viewers)

[Winchester44]

Has anyone looked at Leica Ultravid vs. Swaro SLC vs. Maven B6 specifically in 10x50?

On the used market I assume I would be paying +/-$800 USD for the Mavens and about 50% more for a pair of the older Leica or Swaro,.
Is it a no brainer that the additional investment will be apparent in the view?

 

[[email protected]]

Has anyone looked at Leica Ultravid vs. Swaro SLC vs. Maven B6 specifically in 10x50?

On the used market I assume I would be paying +/-$800 USD for the Mavens and about 50% more for a pair of the older Leica or Swaro,.
Is it a no brainer that the additional investment will be apparent in the view?

Oh my god, that is a no-brainer. Get the Swaro SLC 10x50, but they are hard to find since they were discontinued. If I were you, I would pay a little more and get the 2nd best 10x50 made, the Swaro 10x50 EL. Unless you can afford the best the NL 10x52.

Swarovski EL 10 x 50 SV Swarovision Binoculars - New in Box Demo Model | eBay

Swarovski Optik EL 10 x 50 SV binoculars. New in original factory box. Green color. Made in Austria. Swarovision optical system. Very light signs of handling on the binoculars. Lenses are perfect.

www.ebay.com

Binoculars rankings - 10x50 - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[tenex]

Is it a no brainer that the additional investment will be apparent in the view?

Remember mechanical quality too (think of your BN).

As for "best"(!) that is quite subjective. In particular, not everyone considers full sharpness at the field edge important.

 

[Winchester44]

Remember mechanical quality too (think of your BN).

As for "best"(!) that is quite subjective. In particular, not everyone considers full sharpness at the field edge important.

Yes, can't argue with you there. Mechanically the Leica's are so satisfying.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, can't argue with you there. Mechanically the Leica's are so satisfying.

Mechanically yes. Optically no. Optically they are behind Swarovski, Zeiss and Nikon. Leica hasn't changed their binoculars in any significant way in 20 years.

 

[[email protected]]

Leica Ultravid HD-Plus 10x42 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com​

"Why am I writing about it? On our website, you can find tests of all 10x42 models, from the Trinovid BN to the Ultravid HD-Plus. It is easy to check what the customers gained throughout all these years. Firstly, the results show unanimously that, within the margin of measurement error, the HD-Plus model is practically the same as the HD model. Maybe the transmission level varies a bit but even if you compare the measurements taken with a spectrophotometer the differences remain very slight; it is really difficult to say whether they are an effect of measurement errors, natural differences between two specimens or the actual influence of Schott HT glass. If the spectrophotometer doesn’t show any distinct difference, it won’t be visible to the naked eye either.

So we have a situation where the Ultravid HD doesn’t differ markedly from the Ultravid BR and the Ultravid BR is an almost identical copy of the Trinovid but closed in a lighter casing. It seems that for almost 25 years, Leica haven’t introduced any innovative optical solutions to its key series of binoculars. Of course, the weight reduction and hydrophobic coatings are appreciated, along with a slight transmission increase or a tad wider field of view. Still, such a reputable company should have done better, especially if you take into account the length of the period of time we are talking about. As a result of such stagnation, Leica devices started to compete with each other: you can still buy a second-hand specimen of Trinovids in mint condition for half the price of the new Ultravids HD-Plus.

That tactics of Leica are especially strange because generally you can’t deny the company an innovative approach in optics, particularly when it comes to binoculars. After all, they pioneered in the rangefinder optics, making such revolutionary moves as launching Perger-Porro prisms instruments on the market. Why the line-up of ordinary binoculars has seen so few ground-breaking changes we don’t know. It would be good to finish our test on a more positive note so it should be emphasized that in the premium class of binoculars, apart from very good optics, the Leica also competes successfully with others when it comes to physical dimensions as it can be seen in the photo below, where it is positioned next to the Zeiss Victory HT 10x42.

To sum up, the Leica Ultravid 10x42 HD-Plus is a very good set of binoculars - almost exactly as good as its direct predecessors and the predecessors of its predecessors too. We hope the next model of this series will be truly different, not a merely refreshed version of the same device with just a few cosmetic changes."

 

[Winchester44]

Leica Ultravid HD-Plus 10x42 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com​

"Why am I writing about it? On our website, you can find tests of all 10x42 models, from the Trinovid BN to the Ultravid HD-Plus. It is easy to check what the customers gained throughout all these years. Firstly, the results show unanimously that, within the margin of measurement error, the HD-Plus model is practically the same as the HD model. Maybe the transmission level varies a bit but even if you compare the measurements taken with a spectrophotometer the differences remain very slight; it is really difficult to say whether they are an effect of measurement errors, natural differences between two specimens or the actual influence of Schott HT glass. If the spectrophotometer doesn’t show any distinct difference, it won’t be visible to the naked eye either.

So we have a situation where the Ultravid HD doesn’t differ markedly from the Ultravid BR and the Ultravid BR is an almost identical copy of the Trinovid but closed in a lighter casing. It seems that for almost 25 years, Leica haven’t introduced any innovative optical solutions to its key series of binoculars. Of course, the weight reduction and hydrophobic coatings are appreciated, along with a slight transmission increase or a tad wider field of view. Still, such a reputable company should have done better, especially if you take into account the length of the period of time we are talking about. As a result of such stagnation, Leica devices started to compete with each other: you can still buy a second-hand specimen of Trinovids in mint condition for half the price of the new Ultravids HD-Plus.

That tactics of Leica are especially strange because generally you can’t deny the company an innovative approach in optics, particularly when it comes to binoculars. After all, they pioneered in the rangefinder optics, making such revolutionary moves as launching Perger-Porro prisms instruments on the market. Why the line-up of ordinary binoculars has seen so few ground-breaking changes we don’t know. It would be good to finish our test on a more positive note so it should be emphasized that in the premium class of binoculars, apart from very good optics, the Leica also competes successfully with others when it comes to physical dimensions as it can be seen in the photo below, where it is positioned next to the Zeiss Victory HT 10x42.

To sum up, the Leica Ultravid 10x42 HD-Plus is a very good set of binoculars - almost exactly as good as its direct predecessors and the predecessors of its predecessors too. We hope the next model of this series will be truly different, not a merely refreshed version of the same device with just a few cosmetic changes."

Wow that’s disappointing.

 

[[email protected]]

You know, I just tried a brand spanking new Leica UVHD + 7x42, and I was ready to be wowed by it, but I wasn't. It was like looking through a Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN from 30 years ago, except for the modern casing. If you like Leica's you might as well buy a Trinovid BN and save your self some money. Leica needs to do some significant updates to their products to catch up with Swarovski, Zeiss and Nikon. Build quality and mechanics wise Leica is probably first but as far as optics they are behind the leaders. If you like old school optics, you might like Leica, and they are good binoculars, but they need to get more innovative. Why don't they do something with their Perger prism's? They bought the patent, but they have done nothing with it. They could make a beautiful modern binocular that would be incredible with the Perger prism, almost equal to the Nikon WX. No phase coatings necessary.

Perger Prisms​

Hello All, It is a pity that no Optics Manufacturer has picked up on the Perger Prism. Here lies the potential to produce a really superior binocular , probably much better than any other binocular made today, (well, probably not as good as the Nikon WX, but I bet it could be made to at...

 

[Trinovid]

Wow that’s disappointing.

It's only disappointing that you're being fed more unsubstantiated material from the same poster who is on Ignore with many of us here. Constantly presenting opinion as fact, and his own famously ever-changing personal preference as the only smart choice.
Anyone that can't tell the differences between looking through a Leica BN and an HD+ is blind or inexperienced and any site or person citing such sites should have all of their content taken with a barrel of pink Himalayan sea salt.
Ask anyone else here who actually has both a BN and an HD if there's any difference and we'll all tell you that the Ultravid is slightly lighter and slimmer, with noticeably greater contrast and color saturation.

 

[[email protected]]

It's only disappointing that you're being fed more unsubstantiated material from the same poster who is on Ignore with many of us here. Constantly presenting opinion as fact, and his own famously ever-changing personal preference as the only smart choice.
Anyone that can't tell the differences between looking through an Leica BN and an HD+ is blind or inexperienced and any site or person citing that site should have all of their content taken with a barrel of pink Himalayan sea salt.
Ask anyone else here who actually has both a BN and an HD if there's any difference and we'll all tell you that the Ultravid is slightly lighter and slimmer, with noticeably greater contrast and color saturation.

"Ask anyone else here who actually has both a BN and an HD if there's any difference, and we'll all tell you that the Ultravid is slightly lighter and slimmer, with noticeably greater contrast and color saturation."

Yes, but in 30 years there should be more difference than noticeably greater contrast and color saturation. The only thing Leica changed is slightly improved coatings. No major optical changes like a bigger FOV or sharper edges. I bet the optical train in a Leica Trinovid BN is the same as a Leica UVHD + with the same lenses in the same places with no change at all even in the eyepieces. Leica is sitting on the Perger Prism patent and has done nothing with it when they could build a binocular with it that would be the best binocular in the world. I guess the binocular business is such a small part of their business that they don't care to make any investments in R&D and modernize their binoculars with some earth shaking advancements. It is a shame because I bet if Swarovski and Zeiss had access to the Perger Prism they would develop a killer binocular with it. Leica is a very slow, conservative company when it comes to the binocular part of their business. It is too bad for us consumers.

 

[John A Roberts]

"Ask anyone else here who actually has both a BN and an HD if there's any difference, and we'll all tell you that the Ultravid is slightly lighter and slimmer, with noticeably greater contrast and color saturation."

Yes, but in 30 years there should be more difference than noticeably greater contrast and color saturation. The only thing Leica changed is slightly improved coatings. No major optical changes like a bigger FOV or sharper edges. I bet the optical train in a Leica Trinovid BN is the same as a Leica UVHD + with the same lenses in the same places with no change at all even in the eyepieces. . . .

In previously responding to Dennis:

Dennis

Although I only addressed the 7x42’s . . .

Both the BA/ BN series and the Ultravid series were/ are offered in the same combinations: 8x32, 10x32, 7x42, 8x42, 10x42, 8x50, 10x50 and 12x50
And the respective models have the same number of lenses per side (from Leica’s catalogues):

• 8 for the 7x42 and 8x50
• 9 for 8x32, 8x42, 10x42 and 10x50
• 11 for the 10x32 and 12x50

In terms of working out what this means, the only cut-aways available are for x42 models (and irritatingly the same photos of BA units are variously described as 7, 8 or 10x42!
- as the portion of the left hand barrels that had the badge indicating the magnification have been removed, there’s no external indication of the magnification)


As far as I’ve been able to sort this out for the BA x42’s, only the eyepiece configurations seem to differ:

• 7x42, 4 elements in 3 groups: 1, 2, 1 (see the image in my previous post - it clearly has 8 lenses per side)
• 8x42, 5 elements in 3 groups: 2, 2, 1 (see below, from: Leica Trinovid 7x42 BA cutaway by Gary Hawkins )
• 10x42, 5 elements in 3 groups: 2, 2, 1 (again see below, it’s from Company 7: Company Seven | Leica 10x42 BA Binocular Cutaway Example )

While the 8x42’s and 10x42’s have the same number of eyepiece lenses in the same groupings, it's clear from the images that the lenses significantly differ in curvature, diameter and thickness


I’ve also attached an image of an Ultravid HD 8x42 cutaway from Foto HH (for other photos from them of Leica units see: https://www.ebay.com/sch/leica-store-lisse/m.html?item=291725005905&hash=item43ec2a5451:g:Ke4AAOSwu1VW2sT-&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 )
What’s significant, is that while the configuration of the eyepiece lenses/ groups is the same as for the BA counterpart, the lenses visibly differ in some small details
(if for no other reason, this may have been necessitated by the changes to the eyepiece housing and the mounts for the lenses)
So it seems that between the BA and the UV HD lines there was some tweaking of the lenses - at least for the 8x42 - and one would suspect the same happened for the whole Ultravid line


John

For ease of comparison, Ultravid HD 8x42 left and BA 8x42 right:





. . . so that's one bet lost!

But regardless, I'm sure that things will proceed - for some time yet - in an all too familiar manner.


John

 

[Trinovid]

In previously responding to Dennis:

But regardless, I'm sure that things will proceed - for some time yet - in an all too familiar manner.

Not to mention updated coatings, which is probably the basis for the higher contrast and greater color saturation.

 

[Winchester44]

Are these the ones to get?

Leica 10x50 Ultravid HD Binocular (MFR #40296) with Box #21139 | eBay

This listing is for a Leica 10x50 Ultravid HD Binocular (MFR #40296).

www.ebay.com

 

[Winchester44]

Can I use a standard screw in tripod stud on the Leica ultravid?

 

[Patudo]

Canip of this parish wrote up a review in 2021 comparing Maven's B6 10x50 to a number of other 10x50s including the Ultravid (see link). It's very interesting reading, from a contributor with impeccable credentials.

 

[[email protected]]

In previously responding to Dennis:



For ease of comparison, Ultravid HD 8x42 left and BA 8x42 right:

View attachment 1622211



. . . so that's one bet lost!

But regardless, I'm sure that things will proceed - for some time yet - in an all too familiar manner.


John

The cutaways prove there aren't any big differences in the optical train between the UVHD and the BA. If anything, the UVHD looks almost identical to the BA. The eyepieces obviously would have to differ a little in curvature, diameter and thickness for the different magnifications. If anything, you further proved my point. Leica has made no significant changes to their optics in 20 years outside of coatings, as I said.

 

[Hikerboy]

Being the owner of both Leica and Swaro, I have to admit that there is something truly special and reassuring about that Leica "feel". It's a shame that Leica hasn't put more innovative focus into their sport optics as of late, as it seems that they're avoiding some great potential. That said, I've spoken to several optics retailers here in Canada, and many of them are planning on scrapping Leica from their inventory due to them being a difficult company to deal with, as well as not selling nearly as well as the Swaro's and Zeiss.

 

[Winchester44]

Being the owner of both Leica and Swaro, I have to admit that there is something truly special and reassuring about that Leica "feel". It's a shame that Leica hasn't put more innovative focus into their sport optics as of late, as it seems that they're avoiding some great potential. That said, I've spoken to several optics retailers here in Canada, and many of them are planning on scrapping Leica from their inventory due to them being a difficult company to deal with, as well as not selling nearly as well as the Swaro's and Zeiss.

Does Zeiss make/made a 10x50 worthy of consideration against the Maven B6 for$1400 or less?

 

[tenex]

Canip of this parish wrote up a review in 2021 comparing Maven's B6 10x50 to a number of other 10x50s including the Ultravid (see link).

Thanks, good to be reminded of that. The mechanical construction of the Maven 10x30 I tried some years ago was very disappointing, but perhaps the larger models do better, and the Maven could be good value for money here, which honestly could never be said of Leica but individual priorities vary.

Trinovid Ultra BAs were the best available 35 years ago, arguably even 25 when I bought my BN. Leica seem to have given up on further basic research, but have at least kept up with improvements in lightweight housing, glass types, coatings etc on an already excellent design. Is it really just "old school" now that SF and NL have appeared? I thought that term applied to postwar Porros. My wife and I are very impressed with UV 12x50. I think it has become very difficult to rank modern binoculars, not that that will stop certain people from continuing to. It's all really a matter of taste and budget.

"Why am I writing about it?..."

The question is, why are you? As nearly as I can determine, this is the thirteenth time you've pasted this same Allbinos quote here. And of course that began only after someone else pointed it out, but he doesn't keep repeating himself this way.

It is a pity that no Optics Manufacturer has picked up on the Perger Prism. Here lies the potential to produce a really superior binocular...

This too is an (unacknowledged!) cut and paste of someone else's post several years ago.

If anything, you further proved my point.

It wasn't even your point! But in any case it's a shame that's all any of us ever seem to be able to do for you. Hardly worth bothering with, in my opinion.

 

[[email protected]]

Being the owner of both Leica and Swaro, I have to admit that there is something truly special and reassuring about that Leica "feel". It's a shame that Leica hasn't put more innovative focus into their sport optics as of late, as it seems that they're avoiding some great potential. That said, I've spoken to several optics retailers here in Canada, and many of them are planning on scrapping Leica from their inventory due to them being a difficult company to deal with, as well as not selling nearly as well as the Swaro's and Zeiss.

Did you ever notice how many Leica's are for sale? There is always way more on eBay than Swarovski or Zeiss. People buy them and don't like them, and they return them or dump them on eBay. And if you notice it takes the seller forever to sell a Leica versus a Swarovski that sells in just days usually. Leica sells very few binoculars, and they don't care because cameras are their bread and butter.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/884201-why-so-many-leica-returns/