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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Falcon sp (1 Viewer)

I guess Pete would know a Red-foot guys, he does get around a bit (in a good way!) Can see why he's a bit cautious, underwing base colour is pretty white and the face is rather pale with a distinct moustache...but wouldn't like to say 100%. The last Amur was only id'd once it'd moulted so let's hope it stays for a couple of months...!! ;)
 
I think Amur Falcon tends to have slightly darker head and a bit deeply coloured bare parts, as on the subject bird.
 
I recently found an adult male type Red-footed Falcon at my local patch and it was joined by a 1st summer male. As part of my record submission I looked at the Article in Birding World by Andrea Corso and William S. Clark. One of points which stood out for me was the blackish markings on the underwing-coverts of juv and 1st summer Amur and the typically reddish-brown markings on the underwing-coverts of juv and 1st summer Red-footed. Pete's bird has blackish markings on the underwing-coverts. Also the juv markings on the underparts do look large - particularly towards the thighs. Additionally there appears to be a patch on unmarked white on the axillaries on the bird's right wing. Pete, is there a picture with better definition available. I am guessing not otherwise you would have posted it. Other features look good as well.
 
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Body paler, dark trailing edge broader and in less advanced moult than the 2CY male Red-foot I saw last weekend (unless Pete's bird is in York, in which case mine looked exactly like this).
 
Ok folks, it was an awareness course and I've been rumbled. I'm just back from China and the photos were taken in Inner Mongolia (hence the difficulty of access). The 1s birds would easily have passed off in a crowd, and many of the females, on brief views at least, look very like hobbies. Keep looking carefully!

Cheers

Pete

PS sympathy to those guys in Yorkshire!
 

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Pete.

Nice to know that 2CY males are distinctive vs Red-foot this early in the year (as per your bird and JanJ's links. Can you confirm that 2CY males moult overnight on 1 October or should we check for pale underwings before then?
 
just goes to show that you don't always think of all the possibilities - but so far I've seen neither Amur nor Red-foot, so I know I haven't let any slip through the net!
 
Hi Pete, thanks for the useful pic - pity it wasn't in the UK and accessible! Personally I am wondering if the shape of the markings on 2CY male RFF and Amurs is also different. I plan to check this if I can so thanks again for the nudge.
 
I thought that since everyone who saw the Amur Falcon seemed to get untickable views that was why Pete was expressing his sympathy, but that might be assuming too much. Flame on - as they say:)
 
As soon as I've seen the photos I jumped out my chair and shouted: woow again a 2nd cy Amur in UK!!!!

But it is in Mongolia and it is indeed a 2nd cy Amur males, in a very nice and typical plumage

Very useful photo
thanks

ACorso
 
Ciao Andrea.

And how typical can 2cy Amur males - from a view like this - at this time of year be compared to Red-footed.
I´m refering to the discussion on the linked Netfugl bird, where some thought around the broadness of the dark trailing edge - especially to the inner primaries and the broadness of the barring on the hand (although I´ve seen Red-footed with with narrow barring to the mid primaries.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=21792 Pale grey middle t-feathers.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=28346

Note the brownish coverts and of course the narrow dark band on the inner primaries:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=21753

See also this Red-footed taken by Klaus in Turkey:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=11692

Just some thoughs.

JanJ
 
Hi JanJ, you are of course correct but the other problem we have is how do we know that some of the birds that show Amur Falcon features aren't in fact Amur and are not Red-footed Falcons at all! Bearing in mind the leaps in knowledge that we have made with some gulls and warblers in recent years it wouldn't surprise me if we have more to learn about Amur/Red-footed Falcon identification - particularly in immatures.
 
TringBirder said:
I thought that since everyone who saw the Amur Falcon seemed to get untickable views that was why Pete was expressing his sympathy, but that might be assuming too much. Flame on - as they say:)
Click to expand...

Many were certain they saw a falcon with dark underwings on dates after the photos of the Amur showed it had white underwings. It seems likely there were two birds.
 
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