Is this an American Herring gull? Ireland (1 Viewer)

[martyrynin]

Hey,

Came across this gull. Very dark brown with unusual markings. Is that barring on the greater coverts? Odd for a first winter European I would have thought.

13th Jan, North Coast.

Maybe Argentatus? Seems too dark for Argenteus.

Also has an unusual white mark on the bill.

Ironically it was in the background of a gull I thought might have been an American Herring. I didn't realise juveniles were supposedly easier to ID at the time: How to rule out American Herring gull?

 

[martyrynin]

I've uploaded a video clip here: Proton Drive

It literally is just the first 3 seconds though. Wasn't on my radar at the time at all!

Also see some screenshots showing the colour difference between it and the sub-adult.

Not sure how to approach this one. No scoring system that I can find!

It certainly looks brown. I would expect a dark Argentatus to have more grey?

 

[martyrynin]

I had deleted a lot of the footage unfortunately, but luckily that other post I linked had another photo!

That looks fairly convincing?

 

[lou salomon]

it's a well marked european HG. Strongly checkered GC and generally much white in plumage, notched TT and streaky appearance of head is wrong for American Herring.

 

[martyrynin]

it's a well marked european HG. Strongly checkered GC and generally much white in plumage, notched TT and streaky appearance of head is wrong for American Herring.

Hi Lou,

Thank you very much for your response!

If you wouldn't mind, could you please look at the photos of the bird caught in flight. It appears to show that the bird has an all-dark tail? The gull book mentions that they are "best identified" by this feature.
I would have shared these photos earlier, but am only learning of this ID feature now.

With bit of reading and looking at other images, I do agree generally with your points, although I can see a lot of variation across individuals.

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Hi Lou,

Thank you very much for your response!

If you wouldn't mind, could you please look at the photos of the bird caught in flight. It appears to show that the bird has an all-dark tail? The gull book mentions that they are "best identified" by this feature.
I would have shared these photos earlier, but am only learning of this ID feature now.

With bit of reading and looking at other images, I do agree generally with your points, although I can see a lot of variation across individuals.

You can't see the main tail, just the outer feathers which, like any juvenile/1st winter gull, will be very dark in colour. You need to be able to see the tail when the bird banks in the air to get a reliable ID.

 

[martyrynin]

You can't see the main tail, just the outer feathers which, like any juvenile/1st winter gull, will be very dark in colour. You need to be able to see the tail when the bird banks in the air to get a reliable ID.

Thanks Evan. I wasn't quite sure what was meant by "all-dark" tail.

Unfortunately all I have are these incredibly motion blurred images, but maybe they're enough to rule out AHG? I can see some white on the upperside of the tail.

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Thanks Evan. I wasn't quite what was meant by "all-dark" tail.

Unfortunately all I have are these incredibly motion blurred images, but maybe they're enough to rule out AHG? I can see some white on the upperside of the tail.

Yup, definitely a normal Herring. In American Herring the tail is very dark and there shouldn't be much, if any, white in the tail for a 1st winter (which is the age of your bird).

Evan

 

[martyrynin]

Yup, definitely a normal Herring. In American Herring the tail is very dark and there shouldn't be much, if any, white in the tail for a 1st winter (which is the age of your bird).

Evan

Thanks for taking a look. It is a strikingly different looking bird compared to the others present.

For example here's a few first-winter Argenteus. As well as being on the opposite side of the chess board, they have a clearly white tail from the side view, and the top of the tail is a strongly contrasting white.

 

[martyrynin]

Yup, definitely a normal Herring. In American Herring the tail is very dark and there shouldn't be much, if any, white in the tail for a 1st winter (which is the age of your bird).

Evan

I understand what you mean now after reading up a bit more.

I found these photos which show undertail barring, however with a lot of white as you mentioned, particularly on T6 outer-most feathers which seems quite a definitive ID feature.

Also the brown is blotchy and not uniform. So I concede European Herring!