Help choosing 8x25 (2 Viewers)

[mekidear]

First, please forgive me for popping in on the forum for the first time in 12 years to ask questions.
I am not big on social media but I know that this is a good place to get knowledgeable impartial advice

I have a pair of Leica 8x32 BA's which I have had for eons and are great. Where they fall down is bulk and weight, so I would like something at the other end of the scale to chuck in my pack when out and about walking.

I did buy a pair of Hawke Frontier PC 8 x 25 some years ago which were pretty good, but they developed a loose prism and it is pot luck if the prism is in its correct position or not. If you have ever seen someone tapping their bins against a tree it was probably me So I am looking for a replacement.

Budget is around £200 and my current shortlist is:

Kowa 8x25 BD Neat slim looking bins, the small focus wheel helps keep bulk down. FOV could be better. Old design - has it fallen behind the competition optically or has it been upgraded over the years? Japan made.

Minox 8 x 25 X Action Looks good on paper but there is little to be found in the way of info/reviews so maybe a bit of a risk. Chinese made Wider field of view and a bit cheaper than the Kowa. Looks bulkier. Has 4 Eye piece positions which I have never experienced but sounds really useful.

I have ruled out 28mm objectives as these need to be small, light and packable, also I was not keen on the twin hinge design of the Hawke so prefer the single hinge.

Any opinions/experience of the two models listed above (particularly the Minox) would be appreciated.

Alternative suggestions welcomed

Thankyou

Mike

 

[mwhogue]

I have no experience with the two candidates but have had 5 different (prior versions and now discontinued) Minox 25 mm models in both 8 and 10x. They are very well made with excellent optical performance for the price. One sample has a rickety eyecup so if you go for the Minox you should buy from a source that has a good return policy.

Good eye relief, comfortable eye cups, big smooth focus wheels, competitive FoV and well armored. To the extent it matters they look much more expensive than they are and other than sample variation function as well as any others at the price point.

They are larger than most other 25mm but this may be more comfortable in terms of handling for you. My older models came with nice cases and and a large but comfortable neck strap.

Good luck with the Quest.

Mike

 

[pete_gamby]

I try not to 'sell' our products on here but you might like to add this to your list for consideration:

Discovery WA ED 8x32 | Opticron

Click to view this page on www.opticron.co.uk

www.opticron.co.uk

Slightly heavier than the Minox and Kowa but has ED glass, wider field of view, better close focus and long eye relief.

HTH

Cheers, Pete

 

[mekidear]

Thankyou Mike that is useful to know.

Pete Funny enough, Opticron was the first place I looked I already have an 8 x 32 so am looking for something a bit smaller and they didn't have anything that fitted the bill.

 

[ariban]

How about a Pentax AD WP 8x25?

I have borrowed one from time to time and its not bad.

 

[PatR]

Zeiss Terra 8x25.

Shop around, £240ish and a really excellent little bino. SWOptics or Harrisons.

Or, and I have not owned or even seen these, the GPO 8x26 Passion SD. These are highly rated by @jan van daalen who knows a thing or two about optics!

I appreciate that these are above your budget but the extra £40ish will get you an excellent pair of bino's.

 

[yarrellii]

There's one model, Bynolyt Seagull 8x25 ED that I find intriguing after reading @Gijs van Ginkel analysis for House of Outdoor ("TEST VAN 8X25 MM KIJKERS VAN BYNOLYT, SWAROVSKI EN ZEISS"). According to that report, although it has some drawbacks, like a slow focus wheel, "In terms of performance and ease of use, the viewer is on a par with the Swarovski CL Pocket 8x25 and the Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 described below, and is also more than half the price". It boast an amazing light transmission of 92-93 %, which makes it way brighter than your old Leica, and a very flat one for that, which seems to give a very neutral colour rendition. Besides, it's got ED glass and dielectric coatings.

DDOptics has an exact clon, the Lux HR Pocket ED


Same specs, same shape, focus wheel, etc... even a similar price tag, within your budget. It remains to be confirmed if the optical system and performance are the same. But it might be worth investigating.

And, as @PatR has mentioned the GPO Passion SD 8x26 seem to be getting positive feedback.

 

[ReinierB]

I would go swaro.
CL 8x25
The most comfortable pocket bin I have experienced, although not very small and lightweight. The eyecups fitted my eyes really nice. I don't like "floaters" either.

 

[PatR]

I would go swaro.
CL 8x25
The most comfortable pocket bin I have experienced, although not very small and lightweight. The eyecups fitted my eyes really nice. I don't like "floaters" either.

Absolutely lovely bino's but a bit over the OP's budget of £200ish.

 

[Richard D]

I would go swaro.
CL 8x25
The most comfortable pocket bin I have experienced, although not very small and lightweight. The eyecups fitted my eyes really nice. I don't like "floaters" either.

Great bins but even used, significantly outside the OPs budget.

 

[ReinierB]

I am sorry...
Secondhand still too expensive I am afraid.

 

[Cavendish]

I've not tried this specific model but I've always thought Hawke provide excellent value for money (and great warranty too). Might be worth throwing into the mix of candidates.

Hawke Endurance ED 8x25

There was some discussion about them in this thread.

 

[Cavendish]

I did buy a pair of Hawke Frontier PC 8 x 25 some years ago which were pretty good, but they developed a loose prism and it is pot luck if the prism is in its correct position or not. If you have ever seen someone tapping their bins against a tree it was probably me So I am looking for a replacement.

Just realised you mentioned your damaged pair were Hawkes. Have you thought of contacting them and making use of their 'No fault' warranty to potentially get them repaired/replaced? Hawke warranty

 

[PatR]

Just realised you mentioned your damaged pair were Hawkes. Have you thought of contacting them and making use of their 'No fault' warranty to potentially get them repaired/replaced? Hawke warranty

Excellent reminder.

They replaced a pair of my Hawke's, which had bounced off several rock edges, without question. Almost by return and with a refreshingly professional and courteous manner.

Certainly worth a try.

 

[mekidear]

Appreciate the comments.

I am not interested in the double hinge models and not too bothered about getting the Hawkes repaired - might do so and sell them on though prob not worth the hassle.

I have been considering upping my budget a bit and have been looking at your suggestions. The GPO 8x26 looks and sounds great. Also the Bynolyt and DDoptics ED 8x 25s - I gather these have been discontinued and stock is dwindling, same with the Viking Ventura that looks similar but without the ED glass.

At the moment the short list is

GPO 9x26 though I am not keen on their evasiveness on where their products are made. I am fine with China made stuff.
Bynolyt/DDoptics 8 x 25 ED This would be my preferred choice if I could get them in the UK - but I can't.
Viking Ventura These are available reduced to £99 and have fully multi coated lenses and Phase correction. Are the models above that much better at 2.5 x the price?
Kowa bd 8x25 Variable reviews on this one though the size/form/look are perfect. The only one that is not badge engineered - but maybe it is

This is so difficult without being able to try any of them!

 

[ArchStanton]

How about a Pentax AD WP 8x25?

I have borrowed one from time to time and its not bad.

I bought a like-new pair Pentax AD 8x25’s and have been pleasantly surprised at clarity of these binoculars. Now I just need a strap any eye caps and a rain guard. Amazon had these for around $90 and now they’re $116.

 

[ArchStanton]

Appreciate the comments.

I am not interested in the double hinge models and not too bothered about getting the Hawkes repaired - might do so and sell them on though prob not worth the hassle.

I have been considering upping my budget a bit and have been looking at your suggestions. The GPO 8x26 looks and sounds great. Also the Bynolyt and DDoptics ED 8x 25s - I gather these have been discontinued and stock is dwindling, same with the Viking Ventura that looks similar but without the ED glass.

At the moment the short list is

GPO 9x26 though I am not keen on their evasiveness on where their products are made. I am fine with China made stuff.
Bynolyt/DDoptics 8 x 25 ED This would be my preferred choice if I could get them in the UK - but I can't.
Viking Ventura These are available reduced to £99 and have fully multi coated lenses and Phase correction. Are the models above that much better at 2.5 x the price?
Kowa bd 8x25 Variable reviews on this one though the size/form/look are perfect. The only one that is not badge engineered - but maybe it is

This is so difficult without being able to try any of them!

I liked the Kowa BD 8x25 better than the more expensive compact Genesis binoculars that I recently viewed a birding festival. The compact Genesis 8x22’s are on sale on Kowa’s US website for $300 off. Both of these binoculars are made in Japan.

 

[Mark9473]

I have the Kowa BD 8x25 and consider them a fine choice for a small binocular that's less finicky to hold than a two-hinge model. The Kowa also come with a close-fitting leather (-like) pouch which keeps them very compact to stow into a backpack or camera bag. Optically they're fine for what they are. Viewing comfort with such a small exit pupil can never equal that of a larger instrument. If I could change anything about them, it would be that I'd like a slower focuser.

All that said, they are somewhat inferior in every way to my Maven 7x28 which are really only a few mm larger in every direction. They can be made to squeeze into the Kowa's pouch. Build quality is better, they have multi-stage eyecups, they have the improved viewing comfort that comes with the larger exit pupil, and most importantly, better clarity, sharpness, contrast. I really can't fault the view in any way. An important note, they're specified as having a narrow 6.5° FOV but you actually get a much more acceptable 7.2°. I highly recommend them.

 

[yarrellii]

@Mark9473 When I started looking for a compact/pocket binocular I realised that eye position was critical, and that some models were very finicky, especially double hinge (as you mention as well) with small exit pupil... until I came to the realisation that (in my personal case and experience) a lot of that was simply due to small eyecups! I started a thread about that with the eyecup figures of some models:

Let’s talk about eyecups (comfort, dimensions, preferences, etc.)

To my surprise, in my case a 3 mm exit pupil was perfectly alright if coupled with decently sized eyecups. Take for example a Leica 7x35 "Retrovid" and a 8x25 Zeiss Terra, both share the nearly exact same inner eyecup diameter at around 23-24 mm. Neither worked for me. On the other hand, a diminutive 7x20 Nikon CF III has the same inner eyecup diameter of a 8x32 Swarovski EL and nearly that of a 7x42 Zeiss FL, at 31 mm. Perfect. The same goes for the 8x25 Nikon Travelite (AKA Prostaff ATB), around 32 mm, just like a full 8x42. For me, the great challenge of compact/pockets is offering decently sized eyecups (and I simply can't understand how brands don't see it). I'm sure a 8x20 Ultravid (with a small 2,5 EP) which offers a great quality image would improve ease of view greatly with larger eyecups. They could use some sort of collapsible rubber eyecups that open up to a wider diameter, something like this (but with a lot of thought by Leica engineers, that is):



And then, a high quality 8x25 with full size eyecups would be a delight, in fact, the 8x25 Travelite behaves nearly as an 8x32.
Yes, a 4 mm exit pupil will usually offer improved levels of ease of view and comfort, but there is more to comfort and ease of view that exit pupil (there are some large EP binoculars, 7x42, 8x56 that don't offer a great level of ease of view).
As for the Maven 7x28... I am really curious about them. I see you are from Belgium, where did you get them? They don't seem to be offered easily in Europe.

 

[mekidear]

I bought a like-new pair Pentax AD 8x25’s and have been pleasantly surprised at clarity of these binoculars. Now I just need a strap any eye caps and a rain guard. Amazon had these for around $90 and now they’re $116.

I have ruled out 2 hinge designs - been there - no likey