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Common Snipe or Jack Snipe (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Earnest lad
- Start date
Longish bill and wings and white trailing edge to wing suggest Common to me. Also the fact that it stayed up long enough for you to take a photo - the only Jack Snipe I've seen flew about thirty yards before disappearing forever, despite our sploshing about after it in a flooded field.
Not a feature.
As per this wonderful side-by-side comparison: Plate 29 - Snipes and woodcocks - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment (all photos are clickable), Common Snipe should show extensive red in the tail and it does. The longish bill (seen at an angle, so not that obvious to me, after all) was mentioned already. The BTO video also has an intuitive guide with regard to the flight pattern (Jack Snipe: from up close, silent, low and not far; Common Snipe: from farther away, calling, high and far); not sure if it's 100% reliable, though?
The flight pattern is a good guide but not 100% reliable - Jack Snipe typically fly low and Common Snipe typically fligh high, but I have seen Jack Snipe fly fairly high. With a good view the lack of a central crown stripe is a solid identifier combined with the shorter bill, but you do need a good view! Jack Snipe tend to look noticeably darker with more contrast to the stripes but again it's a 'tend' and light can make a difference. Even on the ground Common Snipe can sometimes appear to mimic the Jack Snipe's bouncing feeding.
Do you mean 'not a distinguishing feature of these two species as both show this'? Just the bald phrase 'not a feature' sounds as if you are suggesting in reply to Simon G that Common Snipe doesn't show this feature.
Farnboro John
Well-known member
No, in the context in which it was used I understood clearly the meaning that "not a feature" means "you cannot use this as a distinguishing point". In fact it's quite a regularly used phrase in birding, as inexperienced birders will often cite something that is not a (distinguishing) feature in aid of their identifications.
Having looked carefully at the photo I think it is a Jack Snipe. The extreme boldness of the yellow back stripe and the short, deep based bill - I know its on an angle but so is the res of the bird and that bill is short - seem to me to be conclusive.
John
Yes both species show trailing white - I believe statistically Common tends to have a slightly broader stronger trailing edge but I don't think you can reliably use the difference in the field.
I'm pretty familiar with both - my local patch is grazing marsh and I'm not seeing enough from the photo to comfortably call it. Feet seem tucked in which is a good indicator of Jack and the head looks quite compact. I'm struggling to assess bill length and not sure on the extent to which the camera is exaggerating the stripes.
I'm pretty familiar with both - my local patch is grazing marsh and I'm not seeing enough from the photo to comfortably call it. Feet seem tucked in which is a good indicator of Jack and the head looks quite compact. I'm struggling to assess bill length and not sure on the extent to which the camera is exaggerating the stripes.
Earnest lad
Well-known member
Thank you everyone for the answers. The bird didnt rise up high when flushed, it stayed quite low but I did notice it zigzagging. It was on the low tide salt marsh at a place called Glasson Dock overlooking the River Lune. It was a solitary bird, I flushed (accidentally) what may have been the same bird on a previous visit at the same spot. I have managed two shots of the bird but the quality of the other one is poor. It is attached here.
Attachments
From that angle the bill looks Common Snipe
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello Earnest,
thanks for the second picture that shows a Common Snipe (by long bill alone), I agree with Richard and John.
I assume that you know, that either Jack and Common Snipe can easily be overlooked, even when one seems have covered the entire and small area. I remember a very few accidents when a lone dog or a human flushed what seems to be all Snipes in an area and when it ran/walked over the field again he flushed one or a few more birds. Therefore I hesitate to say that these picture shows all the same bird. And I would consider both birds seperately.
No offence you know, and you know that I trust observers experience more.
For the first picture/bird: I agree with all, that this bird shows features of both species and this is one more example for me, where I hesitated to accept the features for a Jack Snipe as real and the features for a Common Snipe as wrong (yes, I thought this might well be a pitfal picture of a Jack Snipe, but with so much bad feeling that I stayed on the fence and hoped for more comments. Thanks to all!
Please note that I still cant ID the first bird with confidence. And again no offence you know.
thanks for the second picture that shows a Common Snipe (by long bill alone), I agree with Richard and John.
I assume that you know, that either Jack and Common Snipe can easily be overlooked, even when one seems have covered the entire and small area. I remember a very few accidents when a lone dog or a human flushed what seems to be all Snipes in an area and when it ran/walked over the field again he flushed one or a few more birds. Therefore I hesitate to say that these picture shows all the same bird. And I would consider both birds seperately.
No offence you know, and you know that I trust observers experience more.
For the first picture/bird: I agree with all, that this bird shows features of both species and this is one more example for me, where I hesitated to accept the features for a Jack Snipe as real and the features for a Common Snipe as wrong (yes, I thought this might well be a pitfal picture of a Jack Snipe, but with so much bad feeling that I stayed on the fence and hoped for more comments. Thanks to all!
Please note that I still cant ID the first bird with confidence. And again no offence you know.
What about the undertail coverts? Some photos I've found show white undertail coverts in Jack Snipe vs darker & more rufous undertail coverts in Common Snipe.
Jack Snipe:
ML286368181 Jack Snipe Macaulay Library
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DNVRsQFKkhk/UqobsNYv6QI/AAAAAAAABzg/ZK9Fq_VbMQg/s1600/098.JPG
Common Snipe:
ML487000611 Common Snipe Macaulay Library
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xp5IovPpfH4/TxuM0Y6cK7I/AAAAAAAACGc/bi5vPpjdK8E/s1600/Common+Snipe+%286%29.jpg
Jack Snipe:
ML286368181 Jack Snipe Macaulay Library
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DNVRsQFKkhk/UqobsNYv6QI/AAAAAAAABzg/ZK9Fq_VbMQg/s1600/098.JPG
Common Snipe:
ML487000611 Common Snipe Macaulay Library
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xp5IovPpfH4/TxuM0Y6cK7I/AAAAAAAACGc/bi5vPpjdK8E/s1600/Common+Snipe+%286%29.jpg
Original PaulE
Well-known member
I sat in the old Island Mere hide at Minsmere once, scouring the cut patch of reeds in front for a reported Jack Snipe, saw nothing, then six Snipe flew out, scoured again saw nothing then another 4 Snipe flew out, scoured again another 4 flew out!! Happened about 4 more times, I never found a single bird on the ground, but at least 30 flew out!! Never saw the Jack Snipe either!!! So easily overlooked is an understatement!!
Stonefaction
Dundee Birding....(target 150 in 2025).
I think the first bird is most likely a Common Snipe based on looking at my own photos of Jack Snipe and Common Snipe. One feature that seems reasonably consistent is that I'd expect to be able to see the black stripe below the eye of a Jack Snipe (which looks to be more prominent than similar placed marking on Common) if it was actually there.
I've had several Jack Snipe do the high and away type flights (which explains how I managed to get a few photos of them), and the odd Common stay low and drop back down relatively quickly. The only flight 'feature' so far (at least) for me is Commons call quite often (though not always) when they 'go', but I've yet to knowingly hear a call from a Jack Snipe doing likewise.
My Jack Snipe album on flickr - Jack Snipe
and Common Snipe here - Snipe
I've had several Jack Snipe do the high and away type flights (which explains how I managed to get a few photos of them), and the odd Common stay low and drop back down relatively quickly. The only flight 'feature' so far (at least) for me is Commons call quite often (though not always) when they 'go', but I've yet to knowingly hear a call from a Jack Snipe doing likewise.
My Jack Snipe album on flickr - Jack Snipe
and Common Snipe here - Snipe
I have had Jack Snipe call when taking flight, but it's always been more subdued and lacks that hard 'K'
Earnest lad
Well-known member
Thank you for your very reasoned and effective appraisal. I am keen to see my first Jack snipe in spite of living in UK and having been birding for several decades. Firecrest is another bird that has eluded me thus far.
