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Hovacrex roberti (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Melanie
- Start date
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
And, even if not inquired for, or in demand, just for completeness sake:
• the Hooded Gnateater Conopophaga roberti HELLMAYR 1905 (here, not much of an OD). 🙄
Also see the Richmond cards; here and here (+ the latter's reference; Hartert 1922, here, with its references; Snethlage,1906, here, and Hellmayr, 1906, here).
Though, all in all, very little about Monsieur Alphonse Robert himself.
Good luck finding him (in full)!
Björn
• the Hooded Gnateater Conopophaga roberti HELLMAYR 1905 (here, not much of an OD). 🙄
Also see the Richmond cards; here and here (+ the latter's reference; Hartert 1922, here, with its references; Snethlage,1906, here, and Hellmayr, 1906, here).
Though, all in all, very little about Monsieur Alphonse Robert himself.
Good luck finding him (in full)!
Björn
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a whole chapter on him here
P
PS RE Hooded Gnateater Conopophaga roberti HELLMAYR 1905 (here) not convinced that could be considered a valid OD (even from 1905).
PPS Here
We have him alleviated to the rank of a cardinal in the Roman Catholic church - I assume a misprint for Monsieur??
P
PS RE Hooded Gnateater Conopophaga roberti HELLMAYR 1905 (here) not convinced that could be considered a valid OD (even from 1905).
PPS Here
Antpittas and Gnateaters
This authoritative handbook, part of the Helm Identification Guide series, looks in detail at the beautiful antpittas.Elusive study organisms for ornithologists and highly prized additions to the birder's life-list, the antpittas (Grallariidae) and gnateaters (Conopophagidae) are among the most...
books.google.co.nz
We have him alleviated to the rank of a cardinal in the Roman Catholic church - I assume a misprint for Monsieur??
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Melanie
Well-known member
Thanks for this material.
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Probably also for him Cynanchum roberti. Described here. So he seems have collected as well in nothern Paraguay here.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Definitely not a valid OD, but the name is often cited from there.
The actual OD, I think, would be this: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/3479042
Here he is called "Mons. Alphonse Robert" by Hellmayr: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/3479019
I think a misinterpretation of "Mons.", as used by Hellmayr.
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l_raty
laurent raty
A "Robert, Alphonse, préparateur-naturaliste, r. du Rhône, 30" appears in the 1911 member list of the Société Zoologique de Genève.
https://books.google.com/books?id=m1ILAQAAIAAJ&dq="robert+alphonse"
Could this be same person ? What is the evidence that "our" Alphonse Robert was French ?
https://books.google.com/books?id=m1ILAQAAIAAJ&dq="robert+alphonse"
Could this be same person ? What is the evidence that "our" Alphonse Robert was French ?
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
My answer would be. Yes it can be the same person (and he makes sense). No evidence that he was French. But consider, even if he lived 1911 in Genève he can be of Frech origin (but Suisse is also possible). Could fit as well to
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Well done once again. Yes Swiss is very likely as much of Forsyth Major's education was in Switzerland.
Robert was collecting in Montauban , Haute Savoie , France (near Geneva , Switzerland) at altitude of 900 m on November 8 , 1899.
There is a prominent Robert family in Neuchâtel in French speaking Switzerland with one Alphonse born 1852.
Robert was collecting in Montauban , Haute Savoie , France (near Geneva , Switzerland) at altitude of 900 m on November 8 , 1899.
There is a prominent Robert family in Neuchâtel in French speaking Switzerland with one Alphonse born 1852.
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Let´s return to Alphonse Robert ...
In today's Key we find him as:
• Straube, F. C. 2015. Alphonse Robert (pp. 49–67), in: Ruínas e urubus: história da Ornitologia no Paraná. Período de Chrostowski, 1 (1901-1909). Curitiba, Hori Consultoria Ambiental. Hori Cadernos Técnicos n° 10. viii + 273 pp. (here, all in Portuguese).
I guess the main phrase (and the most frustrating one
) in Fernando Costa Staube's rich, and very thorough, Paper (above), would be the very beginning of it, on p.49 [my blue bold]:
Also see the foot-note (No.39, on the same page):
From the little I can tell, of Straube's long text, the last trace of him seems to be from Brazil, in October 1905 (see p.51): "1905 – Pará: Santo Antônio do Prata (outubro de 1905)", that is, if I understood it all correctly, of course.
As most of you know by now, Portuguese isn't my strong side ...
If he's the same guy as the one who appeared in the Member list of the Société Zoologique de Genève (in Switzerland), in 1911 ... I cannot tell. But why not?
Björn
In today's Key we find him as:
That link is today sadly defunct, however we (still) find it accessible on the Internet Archive:
• Straube, F. C. 2015. Alphonse Robert (pp. 49–67), in: Ruínas e urubus: história da Ornitologia no Paraná. Período de Chrostowski, 1 (1901-1909). Curitiba, Hori Consultoria Ambiental. Hori Cadernos Técnicos n° 10. viii + 273 pp. (here, all in Portuguese).
I guess the main phrase (and the most frustrating one
) in Fernando Costa Staube's rich, and very thorough, Paper (above), would be the very beginning of it, on p.49 [my blue bold]:Google translate:
Also see the foot-note (No.39, on the same page):
From the little I can tell, of Straube's long text, the last trace of him seems to be from Brazil, in October 1905 (see p.51): "1905 – Pará: Santo Antônio do Prata (outubro de 1905)", that is, if I understood it all correctly, of course.
As most of you know by now, Portuguese isn't my strong side ...
If he's the same guy as the one who appeared in the Member list of the Société Zoologique de Genève (in Switzerland), in 1911 ... I cannot tell. But why not?
Björn
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Also note that Global Plants [here] have him as (nothing but):
However, the only (tiny, tiny) piece, or trace, that I can add is found in; The birds of Matto Grosso, Brazil : a report on the birds secured by the Roosevelt-Rondon Expedition, in Bulletin of the AMNH ; volume 60 (1930), where we find him mentioned as: "... the late Alphonse Robert ..." (here), on p.332. (alt. on p.364, in the PDF itself).
Not much, but at least we now know that he seemingly passed away, at some point, between 1905 and 1930.
Looks like a seriously tricky guy to find.
/B
However, the only (tiny, tiny) piece, or trace, that I can add is found in; The birds of Matto Grosso, Brazil : a report on the birds secured by the Roosevelt-Rondon Expedition, in Bulletin of the AMNH ; volume 60 (1930), where we find him mentioned as: "... the late Alphonse Robert ..." (here), on p.332. (alt. on p.364, in the PDF itself).
Not much, but at least we now know that he seemingly passed away, at some point, between 1905 and 1930.
Looks like a seriously tricky guy to find.
/B
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Some of the many different pieces in this puzzle doesn't seem to fit (at least not for me). Sigh! ...
As far as I can tell he seems to have been in Brazil, for the second time, in 1904 (but for how long I do not know, alt. do not understand). Either way, to me, in comparison to what's told in the Key (above, in post #13) he seems to have been collecting even earlier in Brazil.
See Historia de la mastozoología en Latinoamérica, las Guayanas y el Caribe, 2014 (here), where we find the following (short) phrase (on p.79):
He's also mentioned briefly (on p.117, top of page).
Or is this just a piece missing (in the Key) ...
/B
As far as I can tell he seems to have been in Brazil, for the second time, in 1904 (but for how long I do not know, alt. do not understand). Either way, to me, in comparison to what's told in the Key (above, in post #13) he seems to have been collecting even earlier in Brazil.
See Historia de la mastozoología en Latinoamérica, las Guayanas y el Caribe, 2014 (here), where we find the following (short) phrase (on p.79):
... !?!
He's also mentioned briefly (on p.117, top of page).
Or is this just a piece missing (in the Key) ...
/B
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Thus, let's leave South America, for a quick return to his adventures on Madagascar ...
In the report On the General Results of a Zoological Expedition to Madagascar in 1894-96, by C. I. Forsyth Major, published in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London 64 (No.4), pp. 971-981 (here), from 1896, we find the following/ending words:
To me the, or any ("young assistant", in the mid-1890's) doesn't sound like a guy born in 1852.
If so he would have been well over 40 when that particular expedition took place. Also consider that the Scottish-born/Swiss Expedition leader, Dr. C. I. [Charles Immanuel] Forsyth Major, himself was born in 1843.
Or could it be him ("our guy"), born in 1852 ... ?
Equally noteworthy is the following text found in Nature 69, (from 1903), on p. 203. (i.e. the same text as quoted by Straube, 2015, on pp.52–53):
He sure was travelling!
/B
In the report On the General Results of a Zoological Expedition to Madagascar in 1894-96, by C. I. Forsyth Major, published in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London 64 (No.4), pp. 971-981 (here), from 1896, we find the following/ending words:
... which made me think of Paul's post (below):
To me the, or any ("young assistant", in the mid-1890's) doesn't sound like a guy born in 1852.
If so he would have been well over 40 when that particular expedition took place. Also consider that the Scottish-born/Swiss Expedition leader, Dr. C. I. [Charles Immanuel] Forsyth Major, himself was born in 1843.
Or could it be him ("our guy"), born in 1852 ... ?
Equally noteworthy is the following text found in Nature 69, (from 1903), on p. 203. (i.e. the same text as quoted by Straube, 2015, on pp.52–53):
... which clearly is a reference to the 'Percy Sladen Expedition to Central Brazil', in 1902 as reported here (in 1903):
He sure was travelling!
/B
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
But ... apparently, onwards, just a few years later (in 1906), according to the same Author, Oldfield Thomas, Mr. Robert kept on travelling (see here):
However, that's the last trace I can find of what (to me) clearly seems to be "our guy" ...
All in all, take it for what it's worth ... (as in so many other cases, when we're also dealing with French, and Portuguese texts, I'm simply fumbling around, in the Dusk).
/B
That's the very first time I've seen him noted in that particular Region! I assume it would be equal of (L’Empirede) Trébizonde (in French), alt. today's Trabzon, in today's Turkey ...
However, that's the last trace I can find of what (to me) clearly seems to be "our guy" ...
All in all, take it for what it's worth ... (as in so many other cases, when we're also dealing with French, and Portuguese texts, I'm simply fumbling around, in the Dusk).
/B
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
And, a last, final post (and a mere, true long-shot), on my part ... 😬 ...
Is this (on p.7) maybe his Death notice (or not?), published in L’Impartial – journal quotidien et feuille d’annonces, on the 9th of March, 1940, all in French ... ?!?
... if so we might be looking at a guy born in the mid-1860s.
Disclaimer: Or, maybe it's just a namesake ... (is it even possible to make any deductions out of it)? Either in favour of, or against ...
In any case, it would certainly contradict the claim of: "... the late Alphonse Robert" (as told in 1930).
Well, either way, that's it! I'm done. That's all I can find about Alphonse Robert.
See you all elsewhere ... in other threads.
/B
PS. And; Good luck to anyone digging further! 🔎
Is this (on p.7) maybe his Death notice (or not?), published in L’Impartial – journal quotidien et feuille d’annonces, on the 9th of March, 1940, all in French ... ?!?
... if so we might be looking at a guy born in the mid-1860s.
Disclaimer: Or, maybe it's just a namesake ... (is it even possible to make any deductions out of it)? Either in favour of, or against ...
In any case, it would certainly contradict the claim of: "... the late Alphonse Robert" (as told in 1930).
Well, either way, that's it! I'm done. That's all I can find about Alphonse Robert.
See you all elsewhere ... in other threads.
/B
PS. And; Good luck to anyone digging further! 🔎
freedictionary says, with regard to 'late' :
a. Having recently occupied a position or place: the company's late president gave the address.
b. Dead, especially if only recently deceased: in memory of the late explorer.
So apparently it does not /necessarily/ means 'dead'. (Although with a name perhaps it does?)
a. Having recently occupied a position or place: the company's late president gave the address.
b. Dead, especially if only recently deceased: in memory of the late explorer.
So apparently it does not /necessarily/ means 'dead'. (Although with a name perhaps it does?)
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
So it might make sense to check official death records for La Chaux-de-Fonds (Switherland) for 1940.
