It is seen in <this post> today that the Zeiss FL series allows an eye at -6.25 d to use either barrel - presumably across the full focus range - and apparently so do the Z. HT, Swarovski SLC and Sw. Swarovision series.
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Dioptre adjustment ranges for different binoculars? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter pompadour
- Start date
Alright...you know the reality, I think, and getting any barrel to focus
without glasses would be somewhat of a victory.
I do have a little more useful information I can give..
---Most binoculars I have from 1948 to 2013 have a marked diopter adjustment
range of +/- 3 diopters, and they all move more than that.
---Most independent-focus binoculars from 1914 - 1950
are marked +/- 10 (that includes the distance focusing) but will move
about +\- 15
---My Leupolds have no numerical markings for diopter adjustment.
I can imagine making your ideal binoculars "Road Warrior Style", putting
the adjustable eyepiece on both sides. That's possible but probably
involves some machining and welding in one focuser arm and harvesting
a 'for parts' copy of older binocs.
I tried the full range of two independent-focus binoculars.
The Stellar 7x50 and Kendon 6x30 (very clear small binoc) both go
more than a whole turn past the marked range at infinity.
Those would almost surely match both your eyes.
And that opens up a gate to some more hopeful thoughts for you.
A great question would be:
---Can a modern independent-focus design like the Steiner Marine 7x50
be used across a similarly wide range? If so, your troubles could be
over. Finding smaller modern independent-focus would be nice, of course.
Their 7x30 "Sport Focus" doesn't seem right for the job.
without glasses would be somewhat of a victory.
I do have a little more useful information I can give..
---Most binoculars I have from 1948 to 2013 have a marked diopter adjustment
range of +/- 3 diopters, and they all move more than that.
---Most independent-focus binoculars from 1914 - 1950
are marked +/- 10 (that includes the distance focusing) but will move
about +\- 15
---My Leupolds have no numerical markings for diopter adjustment.
I can imagine making your ideal binoculars "Road Warrior Style", putting
the adjustable eyepiece on both sides. That's possible but probably
involves some machining and welding in one focuser arm and harvesting
a 'for parts' copy of older binocs.
I tried the full range of two independent-focus binoculars.
The Stellar 7x50 and Kendon 6x30 (very clear small binoc) both go
more than a whole turn past the marked range at infinity.
Those would almost surely match both your eyes.
And that opens up a gate to some more hopeful thoughts for you.
A great question would be:
---Can a modern independent-focus design like the Steiner Marine 7x50
be used across a similarly wide range? If so, your troubles could be
over. Finding smaller modern independent-focus would be nice, of course.
Their 7x30 "Sport Focus" doesn't seem right for the job.
O_Nut, thanks. Though I say above others' input is much needed, seems less so the more I learn of the general pattern from you. With my present -4.5 + -4 d apparently soon to be ~-4 d x2 most bins should be fine for me, but more of detailed info wil be useful to others whose short sight is more advanced (and use bins wo. specs).
While all your info continues to interest, here's a thing I seem still to have failed to communicate. All the makes - assuming /hoping all models in a make are similar in this respect - listed in my original post except Leica allow my -4 d L eye (in the nude) to use the L barrel over the full focus range. When my short sight was more than -5.5 d was a bit frustrated with Nikons which are what I mostly used then.
Adding in edit: In the bins which allow that I don't imagine there's some special mechanism in the L barrel for it, but I assume that it's enabled by the range of travel of the focusing element and other relevant parameters, if any, in the optical design of the L system! Now here's something that should interest you (and me as reckoned by you and others!): <from 0:46 on>, <here 1:20 on> and <here in post #3>. Seems the link earlier in the thread does not lead to the 12x60 model, at least not now and for me.
While all your info continues to interest, here's a thing I seem still to have failed to communicate. All the makes - assuming /hoping all models in a make are similar in this respect - listed in my original post except Leica allow my -4 d L eye (in the nude) to use the L barrel over the full focus range. When my short sight was more than -5.5 d was a bit frustrated with Nikons which are what I mostly used then.
Adding in edit: In the bins which allow that I don't imagine there's some special mechanism in the L barrel for it, but I assume that it's enabled by the range of travel of the focusing element and other relevant parameters, if any, in the optical design of the L system! Now here's something that should interest you (and me as reckoned by you and others!): <from 0:46 on>, <here 1:20 on> and <here in post #3>. Seems the link earlier in the thread does not lead to the 12x60 model, at least not now and for me.
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Orion 12x60, center focus with seperate corrections....very nice!
A bit big, I realize. Perhaps some arm workouts, or a bungee suspension
to a limb overhead. I love that combination, 12x60. 5mm exit pupil.
If someone is even farther into near-sighted than you, though,
their choices are even more eclipsed. Clapping on a few little -4D cover lenses
offers the benefit of making all binoculars available, however. Just sayin'.
If nothing else, this has convinced me to open a side-project for correctors.
A bit big, I realize. Perhaps some arm workouts, or a bungee suspension
to a limb overhead. I love that combination, 12x60. 5mm exit pupil.
If someone is even farther into near-sighted than you, though,
their choices are even more eclipsed. Clapping on a few little -4D cover lenses
offers the benefit of making all binoculars available, however. Just sayin'.
If nothing else, this has convinced me to open a side-project for correctors.
O_Nut, ha, I see you can dispense enlightenment on another matter. Presently a bit fixated on a 12x 56 or 60 bin handheld for birds (as I don't like scopes). Won't carry much, only pick up from vehicle or lodge, etc. for a short while ad hoc. Any suggestions? (Workout, bungee already offered.) Thanks!
In 56 I know only of the Nikon Monarch - 'ATB' in some markets - and Barr & Stroud Savannah HD and non-HD, among familiar makes, and in 60 only Celestron and Orion models, about which I know v. little. The Zeiss Conquest HD 56 series just announced skips over 12x. Guess it's too much to handhold, gives too little return for the hassle of mounting, for most people.
Does side-project mean commercial production? If so you might think of a v. quick clap on - take off design, for the user him/ herself to use the bin with or wo. specs, or to share it with a companion/s. Personally, a bit put off as I have a fixation (count 'em) for simplicity.
In 56 I know only of the Nikon Monarch - 'ATB' in some markets - and Barr & Stroud Savannah HD and non-HD, among familiar makes, and in 60 only Celestron and Orion models, about which I know v. little. The Zeiss Conquest HD 56 series just announced skips over 12x. Guess it's too much to handhold, gives too little return for the hassle of mounting, for most people.
Does side-project mean commercial production? If so you might think of a v. quick clap on - take off design, for the user him/ herself to use the bin with or wo. specs, or to share it with a companion/s. Personally, a bit put off as I have a fixation (count 'em) for simplicity.
Just a personal project, as I like using binocs without glasses....that nice
darkness the eyecup gives. There isn't much to the lens, just plano-concave,
perhaps coated. It would take a few diameters to cover most binoculars.
The missing trick is an easily-removed adhesive. Probably a few silicone dots.
"Contact Lenses" for the oculars.
Semi-permanent, take it out with you, pluck it off later with a fingernail, remove residue.
Leave them on the favorite pair..
The nuisance is finding them. -250mm focal point in 15 mm or 25 mm diameter
usually means buying fresh experimental grade lenses. Not surplus buys unless
it's eyeglass blanks that are huge. I just have to take the plunge.
darkness the eyecup gives. There isn't much to the lens, just plano-concave,
perhaps coated. It would take a few diameters to cover most binoculars.
The missing trick is an easily-removed adhesive. Probably a few silicone dots.
"Contact Lenses" for the oculars.
Semi-permanent, take it out with you, pluck it off later with a fingernail, remove residue.
Leave them on the favorite pair..
The nuisance is finding them. -250mm focal point in 15 mm or 25 mm diameter
usually means buying fresh experimental grade lenses. Not surplus buys unless
it's eyeglass blanks that are huge. I just have to take the plunge.
If your eyesight is at -4.5 then you need glasses to find birds, right? And if you then take them off to use your binoculars, and the bird moves, you'll need to put them back on to find it again, won't you? In what situations do you find it useful to use binoculars without glasses?
My eyes are a bit worse than yours now, but years ago I heard of people lifting them to use binoculars, so I tried it and quickly gave up. Too much risk of dropping them or losing the bird. Binoculars work better without glasses, but I find that just keeping them on works better for me.
Pshute, here's the answer to your qn., in my post #12 above (copying): "In the field I do wear my specs, because without them I cannot see what the h* is out there to take a closer look at it! Just that I feel specs a bit of an imposition and like to avoid them whenever poss. At such times too I like to use a bin, to watch birds, or for whatever other magic it affords, and to see the far distance as well without the offending contraption." As for the specs up - bin up - bin out - specs down protocol a friend does that always and he's a v. good ornithologist, bird artist and bird photogr. It's somewhat sedate, not a lightning-draw kind of thing. Actually, never thought of asking him whether by doing this he's missing much stuff. Maybe I subconsly. assumed from the outset that he does so because he finds he isn't!
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David, not too clear to me if you wish to know if astigmatism is (a) a factor in my vision, or (b) considered in the posts above. But the answer in both cases is no, with the second no, I'm afraid, following from the first! Surprised by that indication of how much equivlt. magnificn. you lose. I do hope that everything's all right with your correction.
Pomp,
I've read that statically, 85% of adults have at least a modest level of astigmatism which will affect visual acuity. I reckon that for me, correction makes an 20-30% improvement.
David
P.S. Perhaps I should have been clearer. Like using a 10x but only seeing the level of detail as you would through a 7x or 8x.
I've read that statically, 85% of adults have at least a modest level of astigmatism which will affect visual acuity. I reckon that for me, correction makes an 20-30% improvement.
David
P.S. Perhaps I should have been clearer. Like using a 10x but only seeing the level of detail as you would through a 7x or 8x.
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If I were putting the focus range issue to bed myself,
I would be particularly interested in the seperate-focus
police/marine/military models made by Steiner.
If you are curious you might want to start a thread asking
for people's experience (in focus range) with Independent-focus Steiners.
Bushnell make an IF Marine design, but it appears you generally go
for pricier stuff. Steiner has two levels of optical quality, both
reported to be very good. The only drawback: size, including that extra
rubber armor. These things are designed for Alps and North Sea helicopter
rescues and drug-busts or whatever. Very tank-built.
I am getting better at restoration and have a lot
of units, so I pressed ahead with the 'compensating lens' project.
I got 6 27mm x -200mm plano-concave lenses from surplusshed.
Anchor Optics doesn't have a lens close to what I need.
A bit bigger than ideal, and at -5D, stronger than I need, but it
should be valuable for a few out-ranged pairs I value a lot.
One that would be very nice to have in range is a Binolux twin
to the Swift extra-wide 7x35 Nighthawks. So that experiment
happens in a week
or so.
David, yes, did think that even the first time - and was surprised! But when imagining 10 vs 8x the difference doesn't seem that great!
O_Nut, if we don't make the focus range an issue then which models would you like to comment on (if any)? • Steiner: currently no 12x. • I *don't* go for pricier but for good stuff, and price at a certain level is a limiting factor for me! • Add-on lenses: I find your project v. interesting but would find using such an arrangemt. too much of a hassle!
O_Nut, if we don't make the focus range an issue then which models would you like to comment on (if any)? • Steiner: currently no 12x. • I *don't* go for pricier but for good stuff, and price at a certain level is a limiting factor for me! • Add-on lenses: I find your project v. interesting but would find using such an arrangemt. too much of a hassle!
Darn, that's too bad about the power. Yes, Steiner IF binocs are just 7x and 8x.
Same for Bushnell and Nikon. Steiner is very good stuff, but due to their commercial and
military links, they have more low powers, since brightness, field of view, and
hand-eye coordination (exit pupil issues) all improve.
So....right: 12x puts you back in central-focus, basically.
RE "too much of a hassle": I plan on putting 3 little glue dots on a compensator,
dropping it over the ocular, and leaving it semi-permanently. My own
personalized binoculars, no additional hassle. Will probably work for most other
people, too.
For me the biggest hassle was finding the lenses. That's tricky, but that's 95%
of the effort. Machining down eyeglass lenses would be perfect, but that's more
hassle.
Same for Bushnell and Nikon. Steiner is very good stuff, but due to their commercial and
military links, they have more low powers, since brightness, field of view, and
hand-eye coordination (exit pupil issues) all improve.
So....right: 12x puts you back in central-focus, basically.
RE "too much of a hassle": I plan on putting 3 little glue dots on a compensator,
dropping it over the ocular, and leaving it semi-permanently. My own
personalized binoculars, no additional hassle. Will probably work for most other
people, too.
For me the biggest hassle was finding the lenses. That's tricky, but that's 95%
of the effort. Machining down eyeglass lenses would be perfect, but that's more
hassle.
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Ah....I stand corrected.
At a well-organized large catalog:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...o&ci=1010&N=4083534123+4291202801+4294956473&
I see individual focus at 12x and 10x (in a reasonable size).
(and many 7x and 8x)
Don't worry about the names...that's more for marketing pizazz than restrictions,
I think. They are bulky.
At a well-organized large catalog:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...o&ci=1010&N=4083534123+4291202801+4294956473&
I see individual focus at 12x and 10x (in a reasonable size).
(and many 7x and 8x)
Don't worry about the names...that's more for marketing pizazz than restrictions,
I think. They are bulky.
Sorry, I didn't see that posting. I was wondering how you go about it. Do you flip your glasses up like your friend does while you use the bins, or just take them off until you need them again? I imagine the latter would be practical for some kinds of birding, e.g. scanning a shoreline, where you don't need to use the naked eye much.
Pshute, and others too, sorry I've not been clear, not said enough. (Guess this happens when you're a bit crazy - don't know how much to explain to normal people - oh well.) When I *am* wearing glasses I *don't* take them off to use a bin! (It's at the times when I'm not wearing glasses - which is often for lengthy periods - that I use a bin au naturel.)
There was a West Marine store near where I was shopping, so
I have a report on the range of two independent-focus Steiners,
the 8x30 military/marine and the 7x50 marine.
---they aren't anywhere near as heavy as they look...the chassis is probably
mostly composite...very light, actually
---color is extremely neutral, brightness is unusually good, contrast is very good
---sharpness is very good, not the ultimate, but probably because the focusing
is a bit faster (it would get better with experience)
---Fantastic flatness.
but:
For me, without glasses (~-4D), infinity was just in range. Probably would be
just out at -4.5 D. Or on the edge.
A bit disappointing...I thought they would have extra. Fantastic binocs. to fill in
the $200 range, otherwise. Incredibly clear.
I have a report on the range of two independent-focus Steiners,
the 8x30 military/marine and the 7x50 marine.
---they aren't anywhere near as heavy as they look...the chassis is probably
mostly composite...very light, actually
---color is extremely neutral, brightness is unusually good, contrast is very good
---sharpness is very good, not the ultimate, but probably because the focusing
is a bit faster (it would get better with experience)
---Fantastic flatness.
but:
For me, without glasses (~-4D), infinity was just in range. Probably would be
just out at -4.5 D. Or on the edge.
A bit disappointing...I thought they would have extra. Fantastic binocs. to fill in
the $200 range, otherwise. Incredibly clear.
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