Bullfinches (1 Viewer)

[Peter Kovalik]

T. Töpfer, E. Haring, T.R. Birkhead, R.J. Lopes, L. Liu Severinghaus, J. Martens, M. Päckert. A molecular phylogeny of bullfinches Pyrrhula Brisson, 1760 (Aves: Fringillidae). Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, In Press.
Abstract

 

[chris butterworth]

I'll be interested in seeing in what they conclude about Common Bullfinch as well as the far eastern insular taxa, particularly on Taiwan.

Chris

 

[Daniel Philippe]

I'll be interested in seeing in what they conclude about Common Bullfinch

They think reasonable to assign species status to Pyrrhula (p.) murina, but say that status assignment to Pyrrhula (p.) cineracea and P. (p.) griseiventris is less straightforward.

as well as the far eastern insular taxa, particularly on Taiwan.

They say that Taiwanese representatives of P. erythaca (P. e. owstoni) are a recent offshoot of the continental forms.

 

[Richard Klim]

Eurasian Bullfinch

Regarding the geographical scope of the eastern Eurasian Bullfinch groups...

• P (p) cineracea 'Grey/Baikal Bullfinch' is presumably monotypic.
  
• P (p) griseiventris 'Grey-bellied Bullfinch' clearly includes 'rosacea' (often synonymised) - the individuals sampled are from within the range of rosacea.
  
• Cassinii unfortunately isn't sampled, but I've generally assumed that it would be included in the nominate group, based on morphology and distribution.

[But Cornell/Clements identifies a 'Baikal' cineracea (1872) group, including more senior(!) cassinii (1869) and griseiventris (1841).]

Perhaps also discussed by Collar et al in HBW15...?

Richard

 

[chris butterworth]

Thanks Daniel / Richard. No new ticks then :-C

Chris

 

[GMK]

Perhaps also discussed by Collar et al in HBW15...?
Richard

Actually, the species accounts were the sole responsibility of Pete Clement.

An earlier work (ARNAIZ-VILLENA, A, et al. 2001. Phylogeography of crossbills, bullfinches, grosbeaks, and rosefinches. Cell. Mol. Life Sci. 58: 1159–1166) suggested that griseiventris and cinerea had not differentiated beyond subspecies level. Both are, of course, split in some Russian literature (e.g. Stepanyan 1990).

 

[Richard Klim]

Ussury Bullfinch

Regarding the geographical scope of the eastern Eurasian Bullfinch groups...

• P (p) cineracea 'Grey/Baikal Bullfinch' is presumably monotypic.
  
• P (p) griseiventris 'Grey-bellied Bullfinch' clearly includes 'rosacea' (often synonymised) - the individuals sampled are from within the range of rosacea.
  
• Cassinii unfortunately isn't sampled, but I've generally assumed that it would be included in the nominate group, based on morphology and distribution.

[But Cornell/Clements identifies a 'Baikal' cineracea (1872) group, including more senior(!) cassinii (1869) and griseiventris (1841).]

Further to my speculation on the affinities of cassinii, Vadim Ivushkin has today edited BirdForum Opus, which notes that griseiventris is "sometimes split as Ussury Bullfinch together with cassinii".
www.birdforum.net/opus/Eurasian_Bullfinch

Perhaps also discussed by Collar et al in HBW15...?

Clement 2010 (HBW15):
ibc.lynxeds.com/species/eurasian-bullfinch-pyrrhula-pyrrhula

Richard

 

[MJB]

I would argue that 'Ussuri' relates better to the English name 'Ussiriland' than 'Ussury'. ???
MJB

 

[Richard Klim]

Ussuri Bullfinch

I would argue that 'Ussuri' relates better to the English name 'Ussiriland' than 'Ussury'. ???

STOP PRESS: ...I see that André (wintibird) has since edited 'Ussury' to 'Ussuri' in the Opus account, and removed the inclusion of cassinii.
www.birdforum.net/opus/Eurasian_Bullfinch

Richard

 

[Richard Klim]

Ussuri Bullfinch

...Vadim Ivushkin has today edited BirdForum Opus, which notes that griseiventris is "sometimes split as Ussury Bullfinch together with cassinii".

...André (wintibird) has... removed the inclusion of cassinii.

Re-edited by Vadim today:

• "P. p. griseiventris... sometimes... treated as full species, Ussuri Bullfinch (or Oriental / Grey-bellied Bullfinch) together P. p. rosacea".
  www.birdforum.net/opus/Eurasian_Bullfinch

OK, that's the arrangement that I'd expected.

Richard

 

[Richard Klim]

Korea

Nial Moores, Birds Korea Blog, 29 Nov 2012: Bullfinches in the ROK: From Pink to Grey and Much Between!

 

[Richard Klim]

Azores Bullfinch

Lifjeld, Hoenen, Johannessen, Laskemoen, Lopes, Rodrigues & Rowe (in press). The Azores bullfinch (Pyrrhula murina) has the same unusual and size-variable sperm morphology as the Eurasian bullfinch (Pyrrhula pyrrhula). Biol J Linn Soc. [abstract]

Distinct species, but similar jizz...

 

[birdboybowley]

...Distinct species, but similar jizz...

Very good! B

 

[MJB]

Very good! B

I agree, Adam, but it shows that Richard wasn't always a birding nerd...:eek!:
MJB

 

[l_raty]

Ивушкин В.Е. 2015. Род Pyrrhula Brisson, 1760: состав, распространение и особенности экологии. Русский орнитологический журнал, 24(1143): 1679-1738.
Ivushkin V.E. 2015. The genus Pyrrhula Brisson, 1760: composition, distribution and ecology features. Russ. J. Ornithol., 24(1143): 1679-1738.
[pdf]

(All-Russian text.) Reaffirms the Russian stance that Grey and Grey-bellied Bullfinches are distinct species. (Cf. also Коблик et al. 2006 [pdf]; Коблик & Архипов 2014, see [here] and Richard's post [here].)

 

[Acanthis]

Pretty hard work trying to Google translate a few lines at a time, a readable English version of this paper!! ||

The maps at least seem to show considerable sympatry over a vast area between Pyrrhula pyrrhula and cineracea on the one hand, and between pyrrhula, cineracea & griseiventris in the Khabarovsk Krai, Russia.

Also cineracea has been recorded in Moscow so makes it onto the West. Pal. list.

This was news to me. Kind of similar situation to the Long-tailed Rosefinch which seems to be expanding westward beyond the Urals

 

[Richard Klim]

Grey Bullfinch: WP

Also cineracea has been recorded in Moscow so makes it onto the West. Pal. list.
This was news to me.

Any further detail?

[Koblik et al 2014 (Fauna of the Birds of the Northern Eurasia's States (former USSR): Checklists) gives the status of Grey Bullfinch Pyrrhula cineracea in European Russia as "?".]

 

[Acanthis]

Any further detail?

Here's the references Richard, each with a reasonable google translation.

For Moscow:
Каминский А.М. 2010. Наблюдения над редкими и малоизвестными птицами Москов-ской губернии // Рус. орнитол. журн. 19 (612): 2064-2067.
(Kaminsky AM 2010. Observations on the rare and little-known birds of the Moscow-tion province // Rus. ornitol. Zh. 19 (612): 2064-2067.)


For Perm:
Никонов Н.Г. 1973. Певчие птицы. 2-е доп. изд. Свердловск: 1-424.
(Nikonov NG 1973. Songbirds. 2nd ext. ed. Sverdlovsk: 1-424.)

Стариков В.П. 2002. Экология животных Ханты-Мансийского автономного округа: Учеб. пособие. Томск: 1- 94.
(Starikov VP 2002. Animal Ecology of Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District: Proc. allowance. Tomsk: 1- 94.)

Матвеева Г.К., Бобырь И.Г. 2006. Сероголовая гаичка и серый снегирь в Перми // Ма-териалы к распространению птиц на Урале, в Приуралье и Западной Сибири 11: 154-155.
(GK Matveev, IG Bobyr 2006 Tit and gray bullfinch in Perm // Ma rials to the spread of bird in the Urals and in the Urals and Western Siberia, 11: 154-155.)

Рябицев В.К. 2010. Серый снегирь Pyrrhula cineracea под Екатеринбургом // Рус. орни-тол. журн. 19 (621): 2307.
(Ryabitsev VK Grey 2010. Bullfinch Pyrrhula cineracea near Yekaterinburg // Rus. The roots-Tol. Zh. 19 (621): 2307.)


Here's part of the main text imperfectly translated and minus the references:

Outside the breeding season is celebrated from Moscow south to Saratov, Orenburg, Chelyabinsk, Omsk regions and the Altai Territory. In north to Perm and Tomsk. The same situation is observed in Kazakhstan, where Baikal Bullfinch may occur as far west to the south of the country. Such a strong shift in the area of ​​wintering gray bullfinch west relative to the region gnezzhdovaniya suggests a lack of knowledge of this species, and the possibility of its nesting far west and south than is commonly believed. This is evidenced by the summer meeting of the gray-dream weight in Bashkiria. In the Far East gray dream-weights found in the winter and installed nesting east in the north of Sakhalin, where he may have nests. Outside the breeding season occurs in northeast China and the Korean peninsula. Not yet confirmed his meetings in Japan.

 

[Richard Klim]

Many thanks, Sandy. As you suggested, apparently a significant westward expansion, at least in the winter range. (I'd wondered if the record(s) from Moscow may have just concerned possibly questionable reports of extreme vagrancy.)

 

[MarcelHaas]

As part of the WP list updates feature in Dutch Birding, we are aware of WP records of Grey Bullfinch (for quite some time now) and we are currently planning an article on its occurrence.