pole traps (1 Viewer)

[fishingdobbie]

Hi everybody, are you aware that pole traps, gin traps, and fen traps are for sale on ebay ! The sellers claim they are for decoration only, but they are all in working order, and are listed in the hunting section. I have registerd my objection with ebay, it may help if other members do the same. I don't know if it is illegal to sell these, although I think it may be for pole traps ?..Bert

 

[saluki]

Hi everybody, are you aware that pole traps, gin traps, and fen traps are for sale on ebay ! The sellers claim they are for decoration only, but they are all in working order, and are listed in the hunting section. I have registerd my objection with ebay, it may help if other members do the same. I don't know if it is illegal to sell these, although I think it may be for pole traps ?..Bert

It became illegal in 1904 to set any trap in an elevated position with the intention of catching birds. In 1958 gin traps (and pole traps are basically a pole with a gin trap set on top) became illegal. Fenn traps are still legal, but only when set according to strict guidelines - it would be possible to set a Fenn as a pole trap for instance - it's use would then be illegal.

Not sure as to what the law is regarding the selling of gins - my thoughts would be that it was illegal to sell a trap that hadn't been deactivated. The selling of Fenn traps is perfectly legal.

Wouldn't it be better to find out the full facts before raising your objections with eBay?

saluki

 

[Anthony Morton]

According to http://www.police999.com/wildlife/snares1.html spring traps such as Fenn Traps (quote) "... must be set in holes or artificial tunnels for rabbits, rats, mice, stoats etc. If the same trap was set up on top of a pole, it would be intended for birds of prey and owls and therefore be illegal."

Exactly what saluki has said I believe.

 

[rural history]

Hi everybody, are you aware that pole traps, gin traps, and fen traps are for sale on ebay ! The sellers claim they are for decoration only, but they are all in working order, and are listed in the hunting section. I have registerd my objection with ebay, it may help if other members do the same. I don't know if it is illegal to sell these, although I think it may be for pole traps ?..Bert

hi , i read with interest your comments as regarding vintage traps for sale via ebay and the such ...i am 100% with you as regards the no tolerance approach to the barbaric use of traps such as gins in this day and age, and anyone caught using/setting such things deserves all the law can throw at them...however, i am a collector of vintage animal traps and have also sold vintage animal traps to other collectors of such..as the law stands , it is NOT illegal to own or display these items if for collection or display purposes.. it is however obviously highly illegal to use such items ...vintage animal traps, like it or not are a part of our past rural history, and as such are becoming highly collectable (i.e makers/designs etc).. if you have looked on the likes of ebay from time to time you will see that traps can change hands for many hundreds of pounds, indeed some fetch well in excess of a thousand... to think that these traps are being purchased to to be placed in a remote wood or similar, to entrap animals is short sighted and nieve....in this day and age there are lawful,more effective,cheaper and more humane methods of control, where there is a justifiable reason.
There are many antiquities of our past that have "questionable" history, just where do you draw the line!.. indeed ebay allow listings of knives , swords,bayonets etc and as we all know , it is illegal to carry a knife or sword, yet not illegal to own such items, indeed some military items may have in the past actually been used for maiming or taking human life, yet i dont see anyone creating an outcry and demanding their collectability or trade being outlawed!!... since the banning of fox hunting, hunting memorabilia has increased greatly in value, should we now ban the purchasing of such items also!!...i simply think the whole matter needs to be put in context rather than jumping to conclusions.

 

[nirofo]

Gin traps, Fenn traps and even Sawyer traps are still used in the north of Scotland, the gin trap is illegal but there are still plenty about, the others can be bought by anybody who wants one from various "sporting" shops. I've found them in Eagles nests, in forks in trees and on posts; whenever I find one I smash it to bits. It's no use telling the police, they're not interested, (OH YES SIR WE'LL LOOK INTO IT! But they never do).

nirofo.

 

[Andy Westcott]

I have very recently joined the forum and came across this thread in my searches.
I am a collector of traps (amongst other things) and feel I must defend their sale on e-Bay.

I know this particular thread is pretty old now, but the point still remains - as Rural History pointed out, many of these antiques are now highly collectable and can be worth rather a lot of money.

To quote an aquaintance:
"A collector of traps would no sooner set one of his traps to catch an anmal than a stamp collector would stick a penny-black on an envelope and post it."

Agreed, there are those who still set the more recently made gin traps, but they should be dealt with severely by the law. something I am in complete agreement with.

Nirofo mentioned that the police have no interest in illegally set traps he's found, and I suspect he is right; Report such illegal usage to the RSPCA (in the UK) and they will take the matter further.

It is entirely legal to buy and sell traps of any type in the UK under current legislation, and I hope this ability for enthusiasts to obtain additions to their collections continues, and that the badly mis-informed 'do-gooders' do some research and act where it is really required.
Andy.

 

[rural history]

Traps/collectors/countryside welfare : Prejudging

It is NOT illegal to own,purchase or offer for sale vintage animal traps such as Gins, Pole or Man traps...it is however, thankfully highly illegal to use such barbaric devices in this day and age. Vintage traps of this type are part of our rural countryside history and should be viewed and respected as such!..As for sales of vintage traps on ebay, many traps change hands for many hundreds of pounds, i certainly wouldnt pay out these amounts of money to go leaving it out in some woodland or placing it upon a pole for someone else to come along and remove or destroy! , would you..
Man traps are a form of Gin, yet if one were to sell, you dont imediately pre-judge that the buyer is out to inflict harm on his neighbour or other surely!..
Trap collectors are in general country folk, who carry out a great many and varied legal country pursuits, their eyes and ears are as valid as your own at ensuring that these devices are in not in use anywhere!.i know of no-one that would tolerate their use in this day and age.Indeed they would report any such activities if ever found!
Hunting, shooting, fishing are all in their own ways huge contributors to conservation. Yes we may all have different outlooks upon this but there must also be an element of respect for all those that have an interest in our countryside, past and present..
Traps are a part of our rural heritage, we cannot deny that they were once widely used. Thankfully however mankind have learnt and ammended their unacceptable practises... There is far more to trap collecting than just what the trap was intended for, there was a whole industry built up to meet both UK and overseas demands at the time. Communities in areas depended on such...So please dont pre-judge collectors (and yes i am a collector, and i also work in conservation!) ...we all have our own interests and should be accepting of each others interests, and work with each other to protect our countryside.

 

[Martin Thomas]

They may well be part of our nation's heritage but not something I want to be remember other than as a reminder of man's cruelty and destruction of our native fauna. Unfortunately whilst you may well have a genuine historical interest but sadly there are those unlikle you who despite pole traps being banned since 1904 they are stiil used by scum like the gamekeeper in the recent case here.

Any working trap in existence is one trap too many in my opinion.

 

[CornishExile]

The trade in traps for *ahem* collections has been going on for years.

http://bitterbonxie.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/i-was-a-gay-cowboy-before-it-got-trendy/

ce

 

[Martin Thomas]

The comment on the EBay seller's advert says it all: "in good working order".

I rest my case...

 

[Andy Westcott]

The comment on the EBay seller's advert says it all: "in good working order".

I rest my case...

What case would that be?
If you happened to collect Aston Martins, would you want to buy a smashed up example with broken springs and bits missing, or an example "in good working order"?
Please think about that.

And why would anyone pay in ecess of £150 for a genuine pole trap just to sit it on a pole to rust or be stolen? There are other new traps available a lot cheaper with which to commit such a crime, so please allow the genuine collectors amongst us to enjoy our interest without having to endure such narrow-minded criticism.
Collectors simply DO NOT attempt to catch animals or birds with their collections - the notion is absurd.

 

[Jos Stratford]

What case would that be?
If you happened to collect Aston Martins, would you want to buy a smashed up example with broken springs and bits missing, or an example "in good working order"?
Please think about that.

If I were to collect Aston Martins, then yes I would want it in good working order, I am equally sure I would occasionally take it out for the odd drive.

If it works, it can be used - Aston Martin or pole trap.

Collectors simply DO NOT attempt to catch animals or birds with their collections - the notion is absurd.

Nobody suggested collectors attempt to catch birds, but that is a long way from saying a purchaser might use it for such purpose. As genuine collectors would have the pole trap purely for decorative purposes, then I see no reason why the spring mechanism should not be deactivated.

 

[Vectis Birder]

They may well be part of our nation's heritage but not something I want to be remember other than as a reminder of man's cruelty and destruction of our native fauna. Unfortunately whilst you may well have a genuine historical interest but sadly there are those unlikle you who despite pole traps being banned since 1904 they are stiil used by scum like the gamekeeper in the recent case here.

Any working trap in existence is one trap too many in my opinion.

Agreed. And, why would anyone want one of these vile objects as decoration (as the OP said the seller was claiming these were for)?

 

[Adam W]

What case would that be?
If you happened to collect Aston Martins, would you want to buy a smashed up example with broken springs and bits missing, or an example "in good working order"?
Please think about that.

And why would anyone pay in ecess of £150 for a genuine pole trap just to sit it on a pole to rust or be stolen? There are other new traps available a lot cheaper with which to commit such a crime, so please allow the genuine collectors amongst us to enjoy our interest without having to endure such narrow-minded criticism.
Collectors simply DO NOT attempt to catch animals or birds with their collections - the notion is absurd.

Well said mate , spot on.

 

[Andy Westcott]

Sadly I don't think the message is getting through here.

I also enjoy amateur radio, and I have a heck of a job trying to explain why I don't just use MSN Messenger or the phone. I've even been accused of evesdropping on phone conversations and had the police visit as a result. One look at the equipment and the licence was enough, of course, but it just goes to show how blinkered some people are.

I suppose, because I can build a radio transmitter, that I would once have been burnt at the stake.

But - just to clarify my standing on the use of illegal traps, if offenders are caught, kick their backsides hard with a stiff prison sentence. I don't want anyone to think that because I have an interest in the blacksmith techniques used, the variety of tools produced and the way of life of the people who used to trap here in the UK, that I would for one moment condone the use of traps. Heck, I'm even against fox hunting!

 

[Jos Stratford]

Sadly I don't think the message is getting through here.

It got through clearly, merely others hold a different opinion.

I have no objection to anyone having an interest in blacksmith techniques and cultural history, but a deactivated trap equally serves the purpose. Could you explain why you need to buy the trap with the spring mechanisms still activated.

Despite decades of it being illegal to set them, pole traps are still being set in the British countryside - having a secondary legitimate market simply offers a cover for the continued selling and use of pole traps.

The comparison with amateur radios and Aston Martins is not valid - when working, the primary purpose of the latter two is not for use in illegal activity. For the purpose they were designed, pole traps have no legitimate use.

 

[Adam W]

It got through clearly, merely others hold a different opinion.

I have no objection to anyone having an interest in blacksmith techniques and cultural history, but a deactivated trap equally serves the purpose. Could you explain why you need to buy the trap with the spring mechanisms still activated.

Despite decades of it being illegal to set them, pole traps are still being set in the British countryside - having a secondary legitimate market simply offers a cover for the continued selling and use of pole traps.

The comparison with amateur radios and Aston Martins is not valid - when working, the primary purpose of the latter two is not for use in illegal activity. For the purpose they were designed, pole traps have no legitimate use.

Any collectable is always going to be more highly sort after and therefore more valuable if it is in original working order, it doesnt matter if original its purpose now happens to be illegal.
If its deactivated its not original therefore not as appealing to collectors,the comparisons given already i think are very valid.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Any collectable is always going to be more highly sort after and therefore more valuable if it is in original working order, it doesnt matter if original its purpose now happens to be illegal.

Given their continued illegal use, I don't really give a fig if they are more highly sought after. They have no legal use, there should be no legal channel to be sell pole traps with working mechanism. I see no comparison to cars and radios.

There are many items in the UK that the law deems, for public good, should not be sold or held by the general public, etc, such traps should be amongst them. That I might wish to collect kalashnikovs or breed pit bulls for example, doesn't mean I should have the right to.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Any collectable is always going to be ... more valuable if it is in original working order...

I value raptors above the the whims of collectors to possess a working model.

 

[Adam W]

I value raptors above the the whims of collectors to possess a working model.

What right have you got to assume that genuine collectors are criminals?

If anyone wanted to trap illegally do you honestly think they would seek out very exspensive collectables or just buy a cheap easily obtained legal fenn traps and put it on top of a pole?