Hawk ID (Maryland USA) (4 Viewers)

[Dave B Smith]

I'll add one more vote for N. Goshawk.

 

[rb_stern]

"Just curious, where do you see the breast in this picture? All I see is the back of the bird with a little tuft of frontal feathering sticking out by the leg/talon area?"

The area that I have marked looks to me like a very rufous breast. Am I wrong here?

Richard

 

[rockfowl]

"Just curious, where do you see the breast in this picture? All I see is the back of the bird with a little tuft of frontal feathering sticking out by the leg/talon area?"

The area that I have marked looks to me like a very rufous breast. Am I wrong here?

Richard

That's the right shoulder IMO

 

[apbarr]

Northern Goshawk to me, as the Falcon says not a buteo

 

[Big Chain]

I'll add one more vote for N. Goshawk.

To give you some support, there are photos of Juv G'hawk in Wheeler's North American Raptors (page 40 and 180, G07) that may support your opinion, but the width of the banding on the tail may be bit too wide compare to the photo posted.

Same with Juv RSH's photo (Page 53 RS 12), but the tail pattern and the long legs makes me question the hawk in the posted photo as Juv RSH.

Then there is a photo of Juv Red-tailed Hawk (page 96, RT 38 and RT 40) that has very similar tail patten as the photo of the hawk posted, as well as someother features.

I may be carrying this ID too far now, but I feel I must ID this bird, and the folks here can do that, I am sure of it !!

Another thing to consider, the hawk has a kill (a N.Flicker per above post), now which of the three hawks (Gosh, RSH or RT) would most likely to kill a flicker for lunch if that helps.

 

[MLoyko]

"Just curious, where do you see the breast in this picture? All I see is the back of the bird with a little tuft of frontal feathering sticking out by the leg/talon area?"

The area that I have marked looks to me like a very rufous breast. Am I wrong here?

Richard

That is the right shoulder, I can see how you thought it was the breast because I second guessed myself after you said breast but the rufous color is coming from the sun I believe. If you follow the outline from the top to the bottom you can see the wing shape.

 

[njlarsen]

Another thing to consider, the hawk has a kill (a N.Flicker per above post), now which of the three hawks (Gosh, RSH or RT) would most likely to kill a flicker for lunch if that helps.

I think the least likely to kill the flicker would be the RT. However, not all meals are kills, roadkills are big on the menu of many hawks.

Niels

 

[MLoyko]

I think the least likely to kill the flicker would be the RT. However, not all meals are kills, roadkills are big on the menu of many hawks.

Niels

Agreed. Not questioning anybody's skills, just curious how we know the prey is a flicker, just for my own knowledge.

 

[fugl]

I think the least likely to kill the flicker would be the RT. However, not all meals are kills, roadkills are big on the menu of many hawks.

Niels

And Northern Goshawk would probably be the most likely. Though, in fact, slow moving medium-size ground feeders like Northern Flickers are doubtless fair game for most birds of prey of suitable size

 

[JANJ]

Even if the wing looks short I think it´s a Red-tailed Hawk. Tail bars are narrow and a few more of them compared to Goshawk:

http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=a32e27d1a882a5a11558ac83a4d0e32f&topic=284.0

http://www.birdcapemay.org/gallery/main.php/Archive/Jim+Zipp/northern+goshawk.jpg.html

Also note the huge bill - which would be smaller in Red-shouldered Hawk, the RSH back pattern and well marked dark malar.

JanJ

 

[CAU]

I concur with Jan. In addition to the tail, also the tertial and scapular pattern is wrong for Goshawk.

 

[Big Chain]

I would like to thank everyone's input !! Because of this post, I even ordered the Wheeler's Raptors of Eastern North America today.

Want to make this clear...No disrespect to those who thinks the bird is not a red-tailed. Everyone here is forcing me to become a better birder, Thank You again !!

I think it is a juv red-tailed (although not 100% sure) since I did observed the bird w/ bins. With that said, RSH are rare in NJ and I have only seen a few and most of them adults in flight or during fall migration at Hawk Mountain in PA. So, it could well be a RSH.

My Wheeler's North American Raptors specifically indicate "Juv red-tailed have longer tails than adults", and both RSH and RT wingtips fall somewhat short of tail tip on perched birds.

What bothers me about my decision is the flicker kill w/ the bird. Reserched the Life History of N. American Birds of Prey by Bent, and, as expected, it references that birds are not the typical diet of RT, and also states that " birds are not so often taken by the RSH'. The surrounding area where hawk was observed has very little traffic or even any significant development to speak of. However, I am uncertain what type of conclusion flicker kill could provide in ID'ing this hawk.

 

[CAU]

What bothers me about my decision is the flicker kill w/ the bird. Reserched the Life History of N. American Birds of Prey by Bent, and, as expected, it references that birds are not the typical diet of RT, and also states that " birds are not so often taken by the RSH'. The surrounding area where hawk was observed has very little traffic or even any significant development to speak of. However, I am uncertain what type of conclusion flicker kill could provide in ID'ing this hawk.

Red-tailed Hawks are versatile hunters and you shouldn't be too concerned about the flicker kill. In this study 1.3% of the prey items of Red-tailed Hawks were Northern Flickers:
http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/jrr/v010n04/p00108-p00111.pdf

 

[fugl]

What bothers me about my decision is the flicker kill w/ the bird. Reserched the Life History of N. American Birds of Prey by Bent, and, as expected, it references that birds are not the typical diet of RT, and also states that " birds are not so often taken by the RSH'. The surrounding area where hawk was observed has very little traffic or even any significant development to speak of. However, I am uncertain what type of conclusion flicker kill could provide in ID'ing this hawk.

I really don't think that the fact that the hawk has avian prey should carry much weight as far as the ID is concerned. Red-shouldered Hawks are uncommon where I live, but I encounter Red-tails all the time and have personally seen them take many birds over the years, mostly fairly good size (Mallard, coot, California Quail, Mourning Dove, Rock Pigeon, magpie) but also smaller birds down to starling size (apropos of nothing, I've also watched them snatch Mexican Free-tailed Bats out of the air at a local maternity roost).

 

[MLoyko]

I'll agree with the Red-tailed hawk ID. For the reasons pointed out and I just can't see anything else from the picture.

 

[Big Chain]

Hello, to put an end to the ID'ing of the hawk, I consulted a NJ birder, and below is his comment..

"My best guess is an immature Northern Goshawk. The rather bold white supercilium, the uneven barring on the tail feathers, and the plumage are clues"

 

[CAU]

Hello, to put an end to the ID'ing of the hawk, I consulted a NJ birder, and below is his comment..

"My best guess is an immature Northern Goshawk. The rather bold white supercilium, the uneven barring on the tail feathers, and the plumage are clues"

No, the bird is definitely not a Goshawk. A very simple way to prove it is to count the bars on the tail. Your bird shows eight bars, which is quite normal for RT Hawk, while a Goshawk shows four (the fifth is usually mostly hidden behind the uppertail coverts). Note also the dense barring on the tertials and scapulars (a Goshawk has broader and less contrasting bars on the tertials, and the scapulars have broad dark tips with a big white spot at the middle of the feather).

Goshawks:
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/pirpa/Accgen071021Halias3.JPG
http://www.birdcapemay.org/gallery/...DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2315&g2_serialNumber=2
http://www.ilbirds.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=83;image

Red-tailed Hawks:
http://www.biokids.umich.edu/files/9243/red_tail_large.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/raymondjbarlow/image/70297649
http://www.biokids.umich.edu/files/344/rthawk_medium.jpg

 

[Microtus]

The bird is not a Northern Goshawk! The dark tail bands are far too narrow for any North American accipiter.

 

[cavan wood]

Hello, to put an end to the ID'ing of the hawk, I consulted a NJ birder, and below is his comment..

"My best guess is an immature Northern Goshawk. The rather bold white supercilium, the uneven barring on the tail feathers, and the plumage are clues"

I would go with the assertions of some of these guys as opposed to the best guess of your friend in NJ. The tail pattern is just wrong for goshawk as stated. I think the angle of the photo and the posture of the bird are giving a false impression of long tail and shorter wings.

Scott

 

[The Falcon]

As everybody else said here the bird is a Red-tailed Hawk. There is way to many bands on the tail for a N. Goshawk or for any accipiter, for that matter. I should have noticed that when I looked at the photo the first time.

I think the way the photo was taken kind of tricked me in to thinking that the tail was longer then it was, along with the shorter winged appearance.