Camel Estuary, Cornwall (4 Viewers)

[camelbirder]

This mornings visit to the Amble Marshes produced the adult Whooper Swan, 2 Lesser Redpoll, 1 Water Pipit and the female Hen Harrier. Other species present included 248 teal, 62 Mallard, 7 Pintail, 2 Gadwall, 13 Shoveler, 10 Reed Bunting, 1 Chiffchaff, 16 Coot, 1 Pochard, 2 Water Rail, 1 Jay and 2 Stock Dove.

 

[camelbirder]

[QUOTE



Obviously these shooters are making no pretence about being nature lovers or conservationists! Whose land was it on? Would making a complaint have any effect?

Dave

I'm afraid its hard but something we have to live with, if we made a complaint we (the birders) would be made to suffer in some way and I'm always being told never to rock the boat too hard.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately there is not a lot we can do, except complain the shooting clubs, but a lot of the shooting around the Camel is done by the landowners and their friends.
Information, (received today), about the shot landing in the reserve, (and on or near the hide), while people are using it is a different matter and will be dealt with.

 

[gonvena]

For general info to visitors: Seems like a good time to post this information.

There is shooting all round Walmsley Sanctuary. The holiday cottages at Chapel Amble is a noted duck shoot. The land to the left (west) is a pigeon shooting area, used mainly by locals and the rest belongs to the Burniere estate who own the Amble Marshes, except Walmsley Sanc. The estate lease the Shooting Rights to CASC in front of the dam on the Wadebridge side and there is quite a bit shooting on the rest of the land.
CASC only shoot on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. This is strictly enforced.
A maximum of 10 guns allowed on site
Only two duck per gun allowed. Don't know the limits for game birds, I'll find out if anyone needs to know.
Shooting only allowed from the tidal side of the dam and from the northern shore, below mean high water and marshes of the river to approximately Cant Hill, which is Duchy land.
There is no shooting by CASC on the eastern side, (Camel Trail side) or from the Camel Trail.

Please report any contraventions. Derek, Colin and myself know who to contact.

Burniere estate have a good relationship with birders, nice people. It's a long story but Walmsley Sanctuary wouldn't be what it is today without their cooperation.

Hope you find this information useful. Please use this site / thread to report any problems as it is regularly monitored.

 

[gonvena]

recovery of shot birds on adjacent land

I'm afraid its hard but something we have to live with, if we made a complaint we (the birders) would be made to suffer in some way and I'm always being told never to rock the boat too hard.

Unfortunately there is not a lot we can do, except complain the shooting clubs, but a lot of the shooting around the Camel is done by the landowners and their friends.
Information, (received today), about the shot landing in the reserve, (and on or near the hide), while people are using it is a different matter and will be dealt with.[/QUOTE]

When I was working on the Trail, I came across one of the shoots up from Dunmere, who were shooting next to the Trail in the woods. Dogs and people were employed in collecting birds from the Trail. I reported the incident but was informed that these people had a right to recover shot birds. I suppose it makes sense to ensure the bird is collected and despatched asap.

 

[camelbirder]

Unfortunately there is not a lot we can do, except complain the shooting clubs, but a lot of the shooting around the Camel is done by the landowners and their friends.
Information, (received today), about the shot landing in the reserve, (and on or near the hide), while people are using it is a different matter and will be dealt with.

When I was working on the Trail, I came across one of the shoots up from Dunmere, who were shooting next to the Trail in the woods. Dogs and people were employed in collecting birds from the Trail. I reported the incident but was informed that these people had a right to recover shot birds. I suppose it makes sense to ensure the bird is collected and despatched asap.[/QUOTE]

The collecting of birds, although b****y annoying, maybe justified, shooting near people certainly is not. If it was me in the hide I would have phoned the Police.

Walmsley is a Statutory Bird Reserve and as such people need permission to enter.

 

[Qingcol]

This mornings visit to the Amble Marshes produced the adult Whooper Swan, 2 Lesser Redpoll, 1 Water Pipit and the female Hen Harrier. Other species present included 248 teal, 62 Mallard, 7 Pintail, 2 Gadwall, 13 Shoveler, 10 Reed Bunting, 1 Chiffchaff, 16 Coot, 1 Pochard, 2 Water Rail, 1 Jay and 2 Stock Dove.

Plus later, 1 adult male Merlin, 1 Ostercatcher, 7 Siskin, 4+ Water Rail, 2 Jack Snipe and a male Bullfinch.

 

[camelbirder]

Visited the estuary at Tregunna on the incoming tide, the Avocet was still present but the birds of the day were 6, (1 male), Goosander drifting up with the tide.

Also present were 6 Bar-tailed Godwit, 1 Sanderling, 2 Black-tailed Godwit, 7 Grey Plover, 6 Shoveler, 1 Great Crested Grebe, 1 Ringed Plover, 205 Dunlin, 8 Turnstone, 4 Greenshank, 10 Little Grebe, 1, Yellow-legged Gull, (2nd Wint), 84 Wigeon, a male Goldeneye, 1 Peregrine and a Kingfisher.

A Redpoll flew over my house this afternoon calling.

 

[Qingcol]

When I was working on the Trail, I came across one of the shoots up from Dunmere, who were shooting next to the Trail in the woods. Dogs and people were employed in collecting birds from the Trail. I reported the incident but was informed that these people had a right to recover shot birds. I suppose it makes sense to ensure the bird is collected and despatched asap.

The collecting of birds, although b****y annoying, maybe justified, shooting near people certainly is not. If it was me in the hide I would have phoned the Police.[/QUOTE]

I would be interested to know what you think this would actually achieve? I will agree that some shooters are nice friendly people but a large proportion view birders and birding with utter contempt. As a member I am only allowed to walk no more than a few yards on the reserve, from the boundary gate to the steps of the tower hide and I have lost count of the number of spent shotgun cartridges picked up in this small area, they must be extremely confident or arrogant to make no attempt to hide the evidence, and anyone can see it only takes one shot to empty the reserve of birds. I for one refuse to join the ranks of those who pussy-foot around the plain fact that some of these people are having fun killing and maiming the things I love.

 

[camelbirder]

Even more ice in Walmsley this morning. The female Hen Harrier is still present and showing well. The wildfowl numbers have dropped again with only one adult Whooper Swan, 145 Teal, 19 Mallatd, 2 Shoveler, 1 Pintail, 15 Coot, 3 Water Rail and 8 Moorhen. Other species noted included 2 Lesser Redpoll, 1 Redshank, 1 Jack Snipe, 4 Snipe, 6 Reed Bunting and 2 Yellowhammer.

 

[camelbirder]

The collecting of birds, although b****y annoying, maybe justified, shooting near people certainly is not. If it was me in the hide I would have phoned the Police.

I would be interested to know what you think this would actually achieve? I will agree that some shooters are nice friendly people but a large proportion view birders and birding with utter contempt. As a member I am only allowed to walk no more than a few yards on the reserve, from the boundary gate to the steps of the tower hide and I have lost count of the number of spent shotgun cartridges picked up in this small area, they must be extremely confident or arrogant to make no attempt to hide the evidence, and anyone can see it only takes one shot to empty the reserve of birds. I for one refuse to join the ranks of those who pussy-foot around the plain fact that some of these people are having fun killing and maiming the things I love.[/QUOTE]

Not a lot.
Most shooters I have come across are good people, although as you say there is always a few that are not. But in birding the same can be said and both you and I know a few unsavoury ones.

As you all know I have problems with anything being killed and would love to see the day when all shooting in outlawed, but while it is lawful then compromises are needed.

We must also acknowledge that the shooting clubs and farmers do a lot of good putting in ponds and bird cover etc. I know this is so they can shoot whatever uses it but they don't get all of them.

 

[gonvena]

Yes I understand your annoyance when you are trying to photograph wildlife only to have some idiot disturb your work. Not to mention the research being done.
Back in the early 90s we had some chagrin between CASC and CBWPS. Derek made contact with CASC and we all met up and had some working days together. We chatted to the wildfowlers and exchanged concerns and a lot of problems were resolved. Same with the bait diggers. We spoke to them on the Trail and at meetings and problems were, to some extent resolved.
If these are rough shooters then the problem is a little more difficult and I may well think they are. It is a problem for the landowners, if it can't be resolved locally, then the Society's management need to get involved.
I recall, back in the early 90's there was a problem with the North Cornwall Hunt encroaching onto the reserve and digging up foxes. Several letters were sent but no reply received, not that any were expected. Have they stopped? I hope so.
If it were me I would speak to James and the two Tuckers. Maybe even Andrew Hawkey over at Chapel Amble and say we are experiencing problems with illegal shooting on the reserve. Please could they advise all persons shooting on their land that the Sanctuary is private land and shooting is not allowed. Maybe even drop a line to CASC. That way if they are subsequently found to be negligent in allowing known shooters, they could be deemed to be responsible. But there again, I am not in the CBWPS and I don't watch the Marshes. But that is what I would have done. It is so easy sitting on the sidelines.
Anyway, shooting finishes at the end of the month (apart from Mallard I think). But it would be better to spend time before next September sorting this issue out... if it were me.

 

[gonvena]

I would be interested to know what you think this would actually achieve? I will agree that some shooters are nice friendly people but a large proportion view birders and birding with utter contempt. As a member I am only allowed to walk no more than a few yards on the reserve, from the boundary gate to the steps of the tower hide and I have lost count of the number of spent shotgun cartridges picked up in this small area, they must be extremely confident or arrogant to make no attempt to hide the evidence, and anyone can see it only takes one shot to empty the reserve of birds. I for one refuse to join the ranks of those who pussy-foot around the plain fact that some of these people are having fun killing and maiming the things I love.

Not a lot.
Most shooters I have come across are good people, although as you say there is always a few that are not. But in birding the same can be said and both you and I know a few unsavoury ones.

As you all know I have problems with anything being killed and would love to see the day when all shooting in outlawed, but while it is lawful then compromises are needed.

We must also acknowledge that the shooting clubs and farmers do a lot of good putting in ponds and bird cover etc. I know this is so they can shoot whatever uses it but they don't get all of them.[/QUOTE]


Gonvena's 10ps worth

Funny you know, we none farmers perceive landowners / farmers etc as the other lot and all into shooting. What ratio would you say of farmers are into shooting wild game / fowl. I know you have met more farmers than I have, but the ones I've met are very proud of the wildlife they have on their land and only shoot what they see as pests. (okay..what is a pest). I would have thought the percentage is quite low and most farmers enjoy wildlife. I know that some landowners do permit shooting, so as not to be alienated in the local community. Same with fox hunting and other so called pursuits.
I do have a problem in so much as, I eat living things that other people produce for me, so whilst I stuff my face with meat or even vegetables come to that, I feel hypocritical in saying they shouldn't kill duck, game, bulls, chicken, turkey. Killing for sport / pleasure is wrong. Just glad I don't live in the USA.

 

[camelbirder]

Even though the BASC has called for a VOLUNTARY RESTRAINT IN SHOOTING, one of its members was on the saltmarsh this afternoon shooting at the 300 or so wildfowl present.

 

[camelbirder]

Anyway, shooting finishes at the end of the month (apart from Mallard I think). But it would be better to spend time before next September sorting this issue out... if it were me.

The shooting season finishes on January 31st for all Wildfowl, Coots/ Moorhens, Golden Plover and Snipe at inland sites. The shooting of Wildfowl below the mean high water mark finishes on February 20th. :C:C:-C:-C

 

[camelbirder]

This afternoon on the estuary the female Hen Harrier was watch flying over the Amble Dam and continue to Dinham Woods were it climbed high and then drifted off North.
Also on the estuary there was 39 Mute Swan, 144 Canada Geese, 91 Wigeon, 10 Shoveler, 6 Pintail, 200 Teal, 3 Goldeneye, 166 Oystercatcher, 1 Avocet, 5 Grey Plover, 1 Black-tailed Godwit, 5 Bar-tailed Godwit, 32 Curlew, 63 Redshank, 3 Greenshank, a Kestrel and 6 Ravens.

 

[gonvena]

I stand corrected

The shooting season finishes on January 31st for all Wildfowl, Coots/ Moorhens, Golden Plover and Snipe at inland sites. The shooting of Wildfowl below the mean high water mark finishes on February 20th. :C:C:-C:-C

Yes, I knew there was something about the middle of February, well done Derek.
So, let's try a different angle, (this should start something). Is there anything positive birdwatchers can say about wildfowling?
For example: Those 3 Spoonbill in LPC in 1986 or 7 was it. A gun flushed them out of the creek for us. (Our first Spoonbill sighting). Or.... the L.B Dowitcher from 1986, I saw it 4 times and 3 of those were because it had been flushed from the marsh by gun fire.
Wildfowl Trust has developed from wildfowling. Look at the benefits there.
The Camel's record of Little and Great Bustard were only confirmed because they were shot, oh yes and the Black Grouse. Most birders were shooters in those day because they hadn't got binoculars. (Am I straying from the point?)

Personally, I would prefer no shooting. Especially shooting for pleasure. That is my opinion and others must have theirs, we can only hope that the future of shooting goes our way and not the other. Keep buying up land for reserves, that's the answer and ultimately, (taken to infinity), the whole of Britain will be one big nature reserve.

 

[Qingcol]

Personally, I would prefer no shooting. Especially shooting for pleasure. That is my opinion and others must have theirs, we can only hope that the future of shooting goes our way and not the other. Keep buying up land for reserves, that's the answer and ultimately, (taken to infinity), the whole of Britain will be one big nature reserve.

To try and put that into some kind of perspective, before last Saturday the BASC had called for voluntary restraint on shooting. If a bird-watching society like the CBWPS who are struggling to buy up land for reserves like the Maer Lake reserve, had received a pound for every shot fired on and around the Camel on that day they could easily have doubled their annual income.

 

[Qingcol]

[QUOTE


Gonvena's 10ps worth I eat living things that other people produce for me, so whilst I stuff my face with meat or even vegetables come to that, I feel hypocritical in saying they shouldn't kill duck, game, bulls, chicken, turkey. Killing for sport / pleasure is wrong. Just glad I don't live in the USA.[/QUOTE]

Yes I do eat meat, but I'm sure I would be less inclined to if there was a good chance of the abattoir just wounding one in four, and then left those animals to a slow lingering death.

 

[camelbirder]

A quick look around the Marshes today produced the following;

Treraven Meadows
Water Pipit - 2
Green Sandpiper - 1
Canada Goose - 77
Mallard - 38
Shoveler - 2
Teal - 11
Black-tailed Godwit - 20
Curlew - 6
Kingfisher - 1

Clapper Marshes
Green Sandpiper - 1
Little Grebe - 2
Wigeon - 241
Shoveler - 4
Teal - 61
Coot - 1
Black-tailed Godwit - 3
Buzzard - 3
Kestrel - 1

Pendavey Bridge Area
Gadwall - 6
Little Grebe - 2

Guineaport
Common Sandpiper - 1

Amble Marshes
Merlin - 1
Little Grebe - 1
Little Egret - 3
Whooper Swan - 1
Canada Goose - 110
Wigeon - 20
Mallard - 87
Shoveler - 9
Pintail - 8
Teal - 241
Pochard - 1
Coot - 16
Buzzard - 2

 

[camelbirder]

Yes, I knew there was something about the middle of February, well done Derek.
So, let's try a different angle, (this should start something). Is there anything positive birdwatchers can say about wildfowling?
For example: Those 3 Spoonbill in LPC in 1986 or 7 was it. A gun flushed them out of the creek for us. (Our first Spoonbill sighting). Or.... the L.B Dowitcher from 1986, I saw it 4 times and 3 of those were because it had been flushed from the marsh by gun fire.
Wildfowl Trust has developed from wildfowling. Look at the benefits there.
The Camel's record of Little and Great Bustard were only confirmed because they were shot, oh yes and the Black Grouse. Most birders were shooters in those day because they hadn't got binoculars. (Am I straying from the point?)

Personally, I would prefer no shooting. Especially shooting for pleasure. That is my opinion and others must have theirs, we can only hope that the future of shooting goes our way and not the other. Keep buying up land for reserves, that's the answer and ultimately, (taken to infinity), the whole of Britain will be one big nature reserve.

The only thing I can think of that is positive is that of habitat management and creation.