Kingbird or Eastern Phoebe (1 Viewer)

[littlebitrv]

Went out this afternoon 1/16/08, to see the Sand Hill Cranes that I could hear as they flew overhead near D'Hanis, TX . Found them fairly easy. As we drove out into the field to see them I saw what look to be a Kingbird fly from one post to another on the fence line ahead of us. It looked to big for an Eastern Phoebe. But when I got home the pictures didn't really fit a Kingbird or Eastern Phoebe completely with the apparent wing-bar and yellow belly, where pretty easy to see, but didn't show as well in the pictures.

 

[birderbf]

Say's Phoebe. Good call at the intermediate size. Watch the contrasting dark tail and pinkish color beneath the body.

 

[AmpelisChinito]

I don't know, birderbf. Looks like an immature Eastern Phoebe to me. It looks to have a thicker bill, whiter throat, and yellowish belly. But I'll wait here until someone can come along and say why they don't think it's an Eastern Phoebe.

 

[The Falcon]

Say's Phoebe for me also.

 

[Jim M.]

I would agree with Say's Phoebe also. But it is showing a little more wing bar than typical. I would say not Eastern because the back is too light, and the body and tail too slender and long (and of course the apparent buffy wash that can be seen in the second photo on the under tail coverts).

Jim

P.S.: Here is a link to a clearer Say's Phoebe photo from a similar angle:

http://thumbs.photo.net/photo/5429012-sm.jpg

 

[littlebitrv]

Eastern Phoebe

I don't know, birderbf. Looks like an immature Eastern Phoebe to me. It looks to have a thicker bill, whiter throat, and yellowish belly. But I'll wait here until someone can come along and say why they don't think it's an Eastern Phoebe.

If it is a Phoebe then it has to be a Eastern Phoebe because it had a yellow belly and not a rufous belly. That much I am sure of I had not seen one with a so clear wing bar and it also seemed larger than a Eastern Phoebe but I have been fooled before and will most probably again but I do like birding a bunch and I really thank all of you for your willingness to help me on my journey to learning how to ID the bird's I see.
Thanks for your time,
Marie

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

The gray face and the very round head shape in the second pic don't fit eastern phoebe to me. They have a much flatter crown and a darker face.

If it's not a Say's phoebe (and that was my first impression, too), how about a western kingbird?

 

[littlebitrv]

The gray face and the very round head shape in the second pic don't fit eastern phoebe to me. They have a much flatter crown and a darker face.

If it's not a Say's phoebe (and that was my first impression, too), how about a western kingbird?

My first impression was a Western Kingbird also but the wing-bars didn't look right to me. That was what made me wonder what it was.
Marie

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

My first impression was a Western Kingbird also but the wing-bars didn't look right to me. That was what made me wonder what it was.
Marie

I agree the wing bars look a bit strong for western, but that also helps rule out eastern phoebe. They have no wing bars (or at least very weak ones).

If it wasn't orange, I don't see what's left besides western or one of the less likely yellow and gray kingbirds, like Couch's or tropical. Odds say western, though I don't know exactly where D'Hanis is.

 

[littlebitrv]

I agree the wing bars look a bit strong for western, but that also helps rule out eastern phoebe. They have no wing bars (or at least very weak ones).

If it wasn't orange, I don't see what's left besides western or one of the less likely yellow and gray kingbirds, like Couch's or tropical. Odds say western, though I don't know exactly where D'Hanis is.

I'm about 50 miles southwest of San Antonio TX on hwy 90 and 7 miles past Hondo TX.
Thanks for your time,
Marie

 

[Jim M.]

If it is a Phoebe then it has to be a Eastern Phoebe because it had a yellow belly and not a rufous belly.

You could be right that is not Say's (though I am skeptical of the Eastern Phoebe), but I just wanted to point out that if you are going by the illustration of Say's Phoebe in the Sibley guide, that illustration exaggerates the richness and reddishness of the color IMO (and there is also of course individual and plumage variation). Sibley himself has acknowledged that the printing process made the colors a bit too strong in this range.

I am attaching some of my own photos of Say's Phoebe for comparison. (These are copyrighted).

Jim

 

[littlebitrv]

Great pictures Jim. I got such good looks at the bird and the time of Day should have brought out the rufous tone I think if they where there. I just didn't see them is it possible that it could be a Say's Phoebe with yellow tones, it was in the shade. It would be nice if it where a Say's Phoebe I don't have one in Texas. Just don't know what to think at this point.
Thanks for your time,
Marie

 

[nikovich]

Say's Phoebe for me.

 

[birderbf]

Eastern Phoebe wouldn't show the gray head with the dark eyeline, the light salmony belly, and the long, very dark tail. Although I agree the wingbars are atypical, it is not underheard of (apparently): http://www.casitasdegila.com/photos/saysphoebe.jpg

 

[Jim M.]

Great pictures Jim. I got such good looks at the bird and the time of Day should have brought out the rufous tone I think if they where there. I just didn't see them is it possible that it could be a Say's Phoebe with yellow tones, it was in the shade. It would be nice if it where a Say's Phoebe I don't have one in Texas. Just don't know what to think at this point.
Thanks for your time,
Marie

Thanks. In my experience, if you are not thinking about the possibility of Say's Phoebe, your brain can "perceive" the wash as being yellowish since that is what it "expects", i.e. that is what most flycatchers/Kingbird's have if they have color in that area. Also, I checked on eBird and there was one report of a Say's Phoebe in the county where you saw this (Medina) on January 16. That would seem significant (unless of course that is your report!).

Jim