Hello all, looking for some help here. What are a pair of 15x60 Zeiss BGAT T*'s (Cir. 1998) worth these days? They are in good to very good condition with no damage optically only a little wear on the armor. Also they have the hard (non-fold down) eye cups..... I have used a set of these along side the older style Docter Optic 15x60's and remember them favorably, although not by too much. This was back in 93 though so its hard to remember how good they really were? I have used the Docters upgrading to their newer model right to this year. So, If anyone could help please with what they are worth on the open market today it would be much appreciated..... Chuck
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Zeiss 15x60 BGAT* (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter CLRobles
- Start date
I'm still looking for help with these.... The ser# is 401382. The price range just seems to be wildly all over the place. They do have the hard eye cups and have been told by several of my friends that have owned them that this means that they have the smaller ocular. They say the light gathering is still just as good but it has a much narrower FOV and are less desireable than the ones with the soft eye cups. My question is..... The seller said that these were 98 models. That would put them as some of the last made.... Does it make sense that they have hard eye pieces? Could they be older? Did they make the hard eye piece 15x60 with the T* coatings? these are questions that I couldn't get answered.... I called Zeiss Sport optics NA but they wern't much help. They said the ser # checked out as a Zeiss # but couldn't tell me when they were made or of any model features? They said email Germany and good luck! So if anyone is a resident Zeiss expert and can help I would appreciate it! Thanks - Chuck
Pinewood
New York correspondent
No, it does not make sense to me. An email to Zeiss might elicit a response as to which model is associated with that serial number.
One of the last 15x60 BGAT* imported into the States, in 2003, has a serial number in excess of 2,658,000. That was part of a special run and had to be especially ordered from USA vendors. The serial number you provided makes no sense for something supposedly made five years prior to that.
Good luck,
Arthur Pinewood
henry link
Well-known member
The seller isn't telling the truth about the date of manufacture or doesn't know what he is talking about. According to the Peter Abrahams website the "B version (long eye relief, soft eyecups) of the 15x60 GAT was introduced in Sept. 1992. Besides why would a Zeiss binocular supposedly from 1998 have "Made in West Germany" printed on the focusing knob.
Thank you guys! I think your right, they cannot be a "BGAT" and must be older bins? I don't think the seller is purposely misleading? I just think he is working off the info given to him when he acquired them?
So, lets see if we have this narrowed down some though..... They are probably a 1980's GAT with hard eye cups, short eye relief made before the unification of Germany? Sound like were on target?
If it does, next question.... Did Zeiss 15x60 bins of this era come with the T* coatings? If so is the only difference between these bins and the newer BGAT's the larger eye piece with longer eye relief and a larger FOV?
Because if this is the only difference I could live with that not being a eye glass wearer. But if they were not making T* bin in this era or if the newer ones were drastically better in some way (coatings, prisms, etc..) maybe I better pass?
What do you think?
RJM
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
Zeiss began using T coatings ( T standing for Transparency) just before WW2. Of course the quality, complexity and performance of the coatings has improved steadily since, but the T designation has remained unchanged.
The serial number is pretty low, probably from the 1960s, so this glass is a vintage item, as the Made in West Germany suggests.
The 15x60 was the flagship model for Zeiss and is a splendid performer, but it is a handful, big and heavy and difficult to hold steady enough to use routinely.
The serial number is pretty low, probably from the 1960s, so this glass is a vintage item, as the Made in West Germany suggests.
The 15x60 was the flagship model for Zeiss and is a splendid performer, but it is a handful, big and heavy and difficult to hold steady enough to use routinely.
henry link
Well-known member
The T* symbol is printed on the focusing knob in the photo, so this is a 15x60 GAT* made after july 1981.
I just came across this thread. I should read Birdforum more often !
I do have the Zeiss 15x60 B GAT. It is obvious that T* means nothing, because Zeiss improved the coatings with time. My Zeiss 10x42 FL has clearly better transmission, better color rendition, and better contrast than the 15x60.
The same thing applies to the recent Fujinon 16x70 FMT SX2, and the Canon 12x36 IS II.
The Zeiss 15x60 B GAT is still a very nice binocular, but its coatings cannot compete with modern binoculars.
As far as serial numbers are concerned, I have a Zeiss document about the 15x60 B that shows a serial number of 464150. The date of this advertising document is 1992. If serial numbers always increase with time, the number 401382 suggests this is probably one of the last GAT models (serial numbers increase quickly with time : 648890 : 1994 - 2288091 : 1998 - 2658000 : 2003). Did they improve the coatings with the BGAT version ? I don't know.
Jean-Charles
I do have the Zeiss 15x60 B GAT. It is obvious that T* means nothing, because Zeiss improved the coatings with time. My Zeiss 10x42 FL has clearly better transmission, better color rendition, and better contrast than the 15x60.
The same thing applies to the recent Fujinon 16x70 FMT SX2, and the Canon 12x36 IS II.
The Zeiss 15x60 B GAT is still a very nice binocular, but its coatings cannot compete with modern binoculars.
As far as serial numbers are concerned, I have a Zeiss document about the 15x60 B that shows a serial number of 464150. The date of this advertising document is 1992. If serial numbers always increase with time, the number 401382 suggests this is probably one of the last GAT models (serial numbers increase quickly with time : 648890 : 1994 - 2288091 : 1998 - 2658000 : 2003). Did they improve the coatings with the BGAT version ? I don't know.
Jean-Charles
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Renze de Vries noted in another thread
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1512051
that he had built a reasonably reliable Zeiss serial number chronology. His numbers would suggest dates in the late 60s-early 70s for a 600000 serial number.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1512051
that he had built a reasonably reliable Zeiss serial number chronology. His numbers would suggest dates in the late 60s-early 70s for a 600000 serial number.
:h?: mmmm, I just can't see them being that old? I can see 1992..... Even though it has the "West Germany" printed on it. I guess its possible that Zeiss still may have branded them this way? Maybe for the couple of years after unification to ease the minds of US buyers? So maybe late 80's but if jcbouget has a Zeiss Document showing production dates I can believe 1992.
So now back to the original question... What is a early 90's Zeiss 15x60GAT in good to very good condition worth in the open market? Especially considering the economic times we're in?
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Omid
Well-known member
Hello,
I didn't have the chance to read all the comments above so forgive me if i sound redundant in some cases. Now my comments:
I too confirm that the value of a new or "perfect model" with newer long-eye-relief eyepiece is in the $2500 range. I own one myself. Check with Zeiss of Germany and they will tell you date of manufacture and other info right away. Naturally "B" marks long eye-relief but some versions don't have the "B" marking but do have long-eye relif eye-pice (mine is this way, measured/verified by myself and confirmed with Zeiss).
Also, see this thread on Cloudy Night's forum:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthre...page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1
Good luck
I didn't have the chance to read all the comments above so forgive me if i sound redundant in some cases. Now my comments:
I too confirm that the value of a new or "perfect model" with newer long-eye-relief eyepiece is in the $2500 range. I own one myself. Check with Zeiss of Germany and they will tell you date of manufacture and other info right away. Naturally "B" marks long eye-relief but some versions don't have the "B" marking but do have long-eye relif eye-pice (mine is this way, measured/verified by myself and confirmed with Zeiss).
Also, see this thread on Cloudy Night's forum:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthre...page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1
Good luck
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Renze de Vries
Well-known member
The very low serial number 401382 tells us the binocular was manufactured in the late 1980's, possibly early 1990's.
When Zeiss in 1987 reached 2.000.000 with their serial numbers, they went back to (probably) 100.000 (years later, for reasons unknown to me, they suddenly picked up at the 2 million mark again!).
Another useful serial number is the one on my 20x60S, which was manufactured in december 1991: 531814
Renze
When Zeiss in 1987 reached 2.000.000 with their serial numbers, they went back to (probably) 100.000 (years later, for reasons unknown to me, they suddenly picked up at the 2 million mark again!).
Another useful serial number is the one on my 20x60S, which was manufactured in december 1991: 531814
Renze
Thanks Renze! I agree with you.... I think they were made between 1988 and 1992 but probably late 80's. I just wish there was a larger market here for these. When I buy used optics they HAVE to be a very, very good deal. I have seen these Zeiss 15x60 hard eye cups close at auction from $775US to $1500US? I'm wondering if the coatings (both lens and prism) were upgraded through the 90's along with the better eye pieces? This would help to tell how much better the newer ones are.... It sure would be nice to have some who had (or has) both a 15x60 B/GAT and GAT write a comparison!
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
Renze, have you reviewed your Zeiss 20x60S here?
