Would you tick the male White Stork at Knepp? (2 Viewers)

[MK90]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but i couldn't find anything on the other threads.

What are peoples thoughts on the male White Stork at Knepp? Would you tick it?

Obviously, the tagged birds are't tickable as they are reintroductions, and their offspring wont be tickable until a self-sustaining population is established. But, the male is untagged and, as far as i am aware, a presumed wild bird. Would you consider that individual tickable?

 

[PYRTLE]

Why not start yourself and reasons why?

 

[MK90]

Personally, I probably wouldn't. Although I am on the fence about it hence posting the question on here.

I feel that with the many reintroduction projects and escapees in the country I wouldn't be confident that this really is a wild bird. If I were to go to Knepp now, i'd probably just enjoy the sight as the beginnings of an interesting reintroduction programme and not worry about the 'tickability' of the birds.

Interested to know if this is the general consensus among other birders or not.

 

[birdboybowley]

It's as wild a stork as any other so why not?

 

[PYRTLE]

I heard a Corncrake this week in our village, for 3 consecutive nights. There is no way of knowing if it was a wild bird or part of an ongoing reintroduction scheme. I just enjoyed hearing it calling from my bedroom window throughout the night and when I ventured out to record it on the first pre dawn morning discovery. For me, it's a garden and village tick. My UK list though include birds seen on I.O.S. and Scottish Islands.

With White Storks, there have been many free flying unringed birds for countless years. Unless you have unequivable knowledge that it is an escape, or doubts about how many generations back its DNA goes back, then tick it if you so wish. End of the day, it is in a suitable rewildered habitat and raising a brood,, not a zoo or a cage, so can just be enjoyed.

It's your list, go see it. We could be asking the same question in another 20 years time. Same goes for Ospreys, W.T.Eagles and other reintroduced species. The real test will be when a colour ringed Spoon-billed Sandpiper is found on a vast coastal mudflat along the East Coast.

Good luck.

 

[Nutcracker]

No, because I'll never be able to get there to see one 3

 

[YuShan]

As far as I know, the male is a genuine wild bird, hence tickable.

You better tick him now before they introduce more birds, because it will then become more difficult to know which one is the tickable one.

 

[Farnboro John]

As far as I know, the male is a genuine wild bird, hence tickable.

You better tick him now before they introduce more birds, because it will then become more difficult to know which one is the tickable one.

Not if they keep sticking bling all over everything.

John

 

[Euan Buchan]

Yeah I would tick them.

 

[jurek]

Cannot help but whine, that BirdLife did not play a bigger role in bringing this extinct and very charismatic bird back to Britain.

 

[Nutcracker]

Cannot help but whine, that BirdLife did not play a bigger role in bringing this extinct and very charismatic bird back to Britain.

Because there's little or no hard evidence that they were ever a regular breeding species in Britain. A pair nested in Edinburgh in 14-somethingty-something; that's the only definite breeding record. Was it just a one-off, or part of a breeding population? If they had been breeding widely, you'd expect many more written records for such a conspicuous, human-associated species. So likely a one-off. You wouldn't 'reintroduce' Spotted Sandpiper to Britain, just because a pair bred in western Scotland in 1975 (or whenever it was).

 

[Mono]

A recent article on BirdGuides covered a couple of points.

The number of birds needed for a "self sustaining population" is many more than they initially thought.

Not all the chicks from the introduction are now being ringed.

'Long time' before Sussex White Storks 'properly established'

Despite a record-breaking breeding season at Knepp, the White Stork Project has said high mortality of birds mean it will be a while before a self-sustaining population is established.

www.birdguides.com

 

[jurek]

More interesting is that at least one unringed and to all appearances wild migrant White Stork joined and fledged chicks with a released partner in England. Arguably, the Sussex population thus became connected with and a part of the meta-population of wild White Storks in Europe.

About the old opinion that White Storks might have never occured in England: there is now a British list of birds from the past centuries and they were present in Britain all the time from the last Ice Age to at least the Middle Ages:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ibi.13066

By the way, anybody can give a proper source of the folk belief that White Storks are inedible or eating one causes madness, or that the bodies of storks and raptors contain a slow-acting neurotoxin which accumulates in humans? I came across such an explanation of the European custom of not killing storks, uniquely among large birds, but could never track down whether it is real.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

More interesting is that at least one unringed and to all appearances wild migrant White Stork joined and fledged chicks with a released partner in England. Arguably, the Sussex population thus became connected with and a part of the meta-population of wild White Storks in Europe.

We know there are a number of unringed storks free flying in Britain. When was the last time one was seen lingering that had bling which proved it was from the Continent? The words 'to all appearances wild' and 'arguably' are doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Tick it. Nothing bad will happen.

 

[jurek]

I meant that the unringed White Stork which joined and bred in the Knepp colony had no indication of escaped origin.

Anyway, people interested in the origin of possibly escaped birds have now much more information to use. There is now a reliable list of all zoos and suchlike places which keep White Storks: ZootierlisteHomepage Somebody patient can contact all of them and ask if they lost a stork. Also, isn't there a law since many years that zoos must ring their birds? This is not reliable for small private keepers, but big birds like White Stork or Dalmatian Pelican should practically all be kept in zoos and wildlife centers.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

I meant that the unringed White Stork which joined and bred in the Knepp colony had no indication of escaped origin.

Anyway, people interested in origin of storks and other possibly escaped birds have now much more information at their disposal. There is now a list of all zoos and suchlike places which keep White Storks: ZootierlisteHomepage Somebody patient can contact all of them and ask if they lost a stork. Also, isn't there a law since many years that zoos must ring captive birds? This is not reliable for small private keepers, but big birds like White Stork or Dalmatian Pelican should practically all be kept in zoos and wildlife centers.

Just one example. Free flying unringed storks known to wander to another country. Former owners prosecuted for letting another species wander. What do you think they would say if you ask if they've lost any storks...

 

[jurek]

Actually, bird parks tend not to hide that they lost a bird - it gives them a chance that somebody will return it. I mean that there is always the chance that a stork was a hidden escape, unreported etc etc, but the probability gets lower and lower.

If somebody is interested, one could check online photos of White Storks taken at the English institutions listed in the link above. Only be careful that the photo is really from the bird park - zoos own websites sometimes use stock photos. This would give a good overview how many zoo storks wear rings and how many do not.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Actually, bird parks tend not to hide that they lost a bird - it gives them a chance that somebody will return it. I mean that there is always the chance that a stork was a hidden escape, unreported etc etc, but the probability gets lower and lower.

With respect I've just given an example in England where that simply isn't true. They don't care that their birds wander as far as Scotland without rings on.

 

[Andy Lakin]

I recently read that the Knepp project has unringed birds hanging about. They s ay that there is a landowner nearby that has left the reintroduction scheme resulting in unringed birds that have resulted from successful breeding there with other unringed birds elsewhere. I wonder if they will stop ringing any young raised as the numbers increase.