Wintering Lesser Spotted Eagle at El Hondo, Spain? (1 Viewer)

[Torchepot]

The link below should be for a pretty in depth analysis of an eagle that's been seen over the last four weeks. It looks good for LSE but shouldn't the iris be pale? Duivenduik (Advanced Bird ID Guide) also states that gape length "reaches to just under front side of eye"?

There's also the point that LSE are meant to winter in Sub-Saharan Africa, though there was another LSE at El Hondo in December two years ago (and it wasn't that long ago that no-one knew about GSE wintering there).

The photo is from the linked article.

http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi046.htm

 

[Torchepot]

Anybody care to venture an opinion?

This bird is quite a big deal here, with birders turning up from Valencia and Pamplona, amongst other places, today looking for it.

 

[tconzemi]

https://www.researchgate.net/public...potted_Eagle_Lesser_Spotted_Eagle_and_hybrids
Imho this birds looks good for clangaXpomarina hybrid. Especially when you look at the much reduced nape patch, the rather dark bird for a pomarina and the rather large extent of white of uppertail-coverts (not restricted to one white point and one pale vane). Another strong point is, as you already mentioned, migration pattern. Look carefully at the hybrid pictures in the paper provided above and you will see that hybrids often show the typical flight feather barring of pomarina. In any case you need a tissue sample for genetic anlysis to be sure

 

[Torchepot]

Thanks Tom,

Whatever it is it's quite a striking bird, there's a bird identified as a 3rd CY GSE in the same location at the moment and it looks very different.

This situation with hybrids is very frustrating it effectively means that without DNA analysis any bird that either turns up at the wrong time of year or has any variation in plumage has a question mark over it, in fact given the kind of views usually obtained how can anyone be certain of the "purity" of any individual?

Interestingly Tonn the satellite tagged GSE shows double "commas" in flight and several observers have put forward the idea that it's a hybrid - but apparently the DNA analysis shows otherwise.

The question of eye colour is still unresolved - the paper you attached - Thanks :t: (which has been the basis for most of the analysis of the current bird) mentions that they took especial consideration of eye colour, but then fails to mention it again. I don't have access to Forsman's books here - so I don't know if he mentions it?

Likewise I can't find any further reference to gape length - is it a useful field characteristic?

I'm not totally convinced of the argument that it can't be species "X" because they winter somewhere else, especially here in Southern Spain. There are often odd birds which aren't "meant" to be here and if no birds broke the mould then migration patterns would be set in stone.

If I get the chance I'll try to get some video of the bird but I'm not sure if it's going to make anything any clearer

 

[fdokykcu]

"The iris colour remains a reliable feature when seen well. In LSE the iris has a pale yellowish colour in all but juveniles and first-year birds, while in GSE it remains dark throughout life, although some adults show a lighter, medium brown iris, but never the bright amber or almost pure yellow of adult LSE" (p. 395)

And then talking of hybrids:

"In the subsequent inmature plumages the underwing barring is still important, but now the colour of the iris also gives indication of ancestry: a GSE-like bird with a pale iris and an ochre nape patch is most probably of hybrid origin. As the birds get older the remiges become plain and this character is lost, but instead the colour of the iris becomes more evident"
(p. 418)

Hope it helps

Thanks Tom,
I don't have access to Forsman's books here - so I don't know if he mentions it?

 

[Torchepot]

Thanks fdokykcu

So it looks like that at least the iris colour doesn't help with a bird of this age, but becomes much more important with older birds (if I've understood correctly )

Now it looks like it comes down to some very fine examination of plumage details (some of which may not be clear from the photos).