Whip-poor-will or Chuck-will's-widow? S. Florida (1 Viewer)

[Zackiedawg]

This weekend, was lucky enough to find not one, but TWO, nightjars hiding on the ground in the afternoon. They were about 45 feet apart from each other. We really only ever have two - the whip or the chuck. Telling them apart is horribly difficult. After lots of back-and-forth with several other photogs, most were thinking it was a whip-poor-will, and that's how we were all IDing them...but now there's a few who have been seeing the photos and think it's a chuck-will's-widow for sure.
I'm hoping to get some expert consensus here...the following photos are of two different birds - the first bird is facing the camera, while the second is more of a side-profile. I'm including multiple shots of both to help with the ID - they were remarkably close and though in very deep shade and shooting at ISO 6400, I was able to get pretty solid details of each...

 

[D Halas]

I think this is one of each. The forward facing bird is a Whip-poor-will, and the side-on bird is a Chuck-will's-widow. Whip-poor-wills have the dark streaks in the crown arranged in a clear central crown stripe, while on Chuck-will's-widows, the dark streaks in the crown are spread out much more evenly.

 

[Biancone]

Nothing to contribute on ID, but they are excellent nightjar images!

 

[Zackiedawg]

Interesting to consider it could be two different species...I was already amazed to find two nightjars in the same patch of forest, so even more amazing if a whip and a chuck both hung out so close on the same day. I do see how the black stripe in the portrait bird seems more in alignment, while the other seems more diffuse. I had also noted that the portrait bird seems to have a darker neck/chest overall, where the other appears to have more tan/buff colors mixed in, and one of the ID references noted chucks typically have lighter throats. Does that sound like additional evidence of these being two different species?

 

[KC Foggin]

I can't help with the ID but you sure got some beautiful images Zack!

 

[pianoman]

Most of the online descriptions seem to have CWW as definitely larger than WPW - usually I imagine it is hard to assess but if you had them close by it might have been possible to tell.

And let me echo the comments on such great photos. I am still waiting to see my first nightjar in Ireland, let alone photograph one!

 

[Butty]

I wouldn't describe either of these birds as having a 'bold, dark median crown-stripe' (Sibley, on eastern whip-poor-will). But they do both have a clear pale stripe at the side of the crown. Both criteria mean they're both chuck-will's-widows.

 

[KenM]

Incredible shots Zackiedawg!, especially at that iso!!
What was your speed and aperture?

Cheers👍

 

[Zackiedawg]

Thanks all on the photo compliments...it was uncommonly close and though camouflaged and with a few small leaves in the way, I had a mostly clear view of both birds.
Thanks Butty on the observations of the dark median crown stripe. Though it seems to be more organized on the portrait bird, I don't know if I'd consider it bold or dark. The things that throw me off of a chuck ID are that very dark throat on the portrait bird, and what looks to be a more rounded crown - chucks are usually described as quite flat. I've got to rule out size as a variable to decide - as there was nothing nearby to compare or relate to.
Here are the descriptors that I think might lean towards Chuck:

• Although both species are superficially similar in color, the Chuck-will's-widow tends to be a duskier, brownish-gray overall, especially on the underparts. It is also sometimes described as being red or reddish. The Eastern Whip-poor-will is a paler, grayer, and more contrasty bird, particularily on the crown, tail, and underparts.

Throat Color​

• Both sexes of the Chuck-will's-Widow have buffy-brown throats; because of the darker underparts there is a noticeable contrast between these two areas. In addition, the throat of the Chuck often appears barred, a trait not shown by the Whip.

Facial Bristles​

• Both the Eastern Whip-poor-will and the Chuck-will's-widow possess modified feathers known as rictal bristles that run along the side of the face bordering the mouth. These bristles resemble stiff hairs and their shape can be used to separate the two species. On the bristles of the Chuck-will's-widow there are smaller side-hairs which give them a branched look. Conversely, the bristles of the Eastern Whip-poor-will are unbranched and bare.

Bill Color​

• The bill of the Chuck-will's-widow is often bicolored, the pale bases of both mandibles contrasting with the dark tip. The bill of the Eastern Whip-poor-will is mostly dark, although the lower mandible may be pale

The one area that threw me a bit was the description of the crown:

Crown Color and Streaking​

• The crown of the Eastern Whip-poor-will is pale gray, paler than the crown of the Chuck-will's-widow which is usually more brownish. In addition, the contrast between the crown and back is more pronounced on the Eastern Whip-poor-will. Both species also have their crowns overlaid with darker longitudinal streaks, the shapes of which are often a good clue to identity. On the Eastern Whip-poor-will the streaks, especially toward the center, tend to be thick and blotchy, while on the Chuck they are narrower.

Most of that description works for the Chuck, but the dark longitudinal streaking in the first bird does appear to be fairly thick near the center.

The throat does appear buffier and slightly barred, and contrasts with the chest on both birds, the facial bristles appear pretty bare and clean, and the bill does seem to be paler until the tip on both birds, with a notable black/dark tip. So - are we leaning towards likely both birds being chucks?

 

[Zackiedawg]

Incredible shots Zackiedawg!, especially at that iso!!
What was your speed and aperture?

Cheers👍

I was wide open - a long slowish lens (200-600mm) at 600mm and F6.3 with ISO 6400 - the shutter speeds varied between a low of 1/30 to a high of around 1/250, handheld. I was steadying my elbows on a handrail of a boardwalk and the lens and camera have stabilization which helps handhold some slow shutter speeds. Needed every bit of light I could scrounge as especially the head-on bird was in an extremely dark spot under a low tree.

 

[Butty]

are we leaning towards likely both birds being chucks?

I'm more than leaning. See above for a feature (pale lateral crown-stripe) which isn't in your feature-analysis - and which you've not commented on.

 

[Zackiedawg]

Ah yes - forgot about that one you mentioned. I am in agreement - I've changed my gallery IDs to chuck's.

I dug up the other two times I've photographed chucks - and that pale crown stripe stands out:

Compared to the whip-poor-wills I've shot, which definitely don't seem to have that defined border stripe laterally (and the solid bills without the clear darker tip - plus the whips look greyer overall, while the chucks seem more brown and warmer overall):

But boy those are similar birds! Quite difficult overall to ID in the field.

Many thanks, to all, for the help.

 

[KC Foggin]

And more excellent images guy!

 

[pbjosh]

Tremendous images indeed. I think on bill color and a few of the plumage details that have been noted you can quite confidently ID both your birds as Chuck-wills-widow. I've seen potential C-W-W a couple times in the tropics but they've always flushed before I could get meaningful photos or definitive looks. I've never been in their breeding range in spring/summer, unfortunately. I am drooling to see one as well as you had them here!