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Which birds have crops? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mutter
- Start date
Chickadeedeedee
Well-known member
Hi Andy.
I'm not sure about the rest of them but adult starlings have a very small crop volume. It is still there but the food basically just goes through very quickly. Baby starlings are a different matter. Perhaps others in the Mynah family are the same?
Lydia
I'm not sure about the rest of them but adult starlings have a very small crop volume. It is still there but the food basically just goes through very quickly. Baby starlings are a different matter. Perhaps others in the Mynah family are the same?
Lydia
I'm competely guessing, but i think most bird's do have a crop of some sort. I think the only ones with no crops at all are ratites, but i'm fairly sure someone will prove me wrong on this. I mean I don't imagine penguins have crops either. Who know's? Probably Bill Moss :-D
Good question Andy.My immediate thoughts are that they must all have crops.The seed and hard insect eaters must have something like lapidary equipment to grind food to something like liquid cosistancy.How do they produce shells for eggs?Even fish eaters have to contend with bones. I think the only alternative would have to be gastric acids, as in canines, that can digest reasonable bones.An exception could be fruit eaters that eat pulp and whole berries but,pass the seeds on to germinate .
Just remembered,,owls and gulls regurgitate pellets don't they?
That's my limit now. Someone rescue me. maurice
Just remembered,,owls and gulls regurgitate pellets don't they?
That's my limit now. Someone rescue me. maurice
Hi Andy,
Interesting question, something that I'd not thought about before, but my first thought was possibly not Owls because of their different digestive technique (pellets). So I had a Google and confirmed that and also found, to my surprise, the following.
No crops; All Gruiformes (Cranes, Rails, Coots etc); Penguins; Emus (so possibly all Ratites?); Mynahs (Lydia suggested that); Gulls (?); and Geese (!?).
Needs a bit more research, don't have time now but I'll have another go tomorrow, you've got me interested.
Bill.
Interesting question, something that I'd not thought about before, but my first thought was possibly not Owls because of their different digestive technique (pellets). So I had a Google and confirmed that and also found, to my surprise, the following.
No crops; All Gruiformes (Cranes, Rails, Coots etc); Penguins; Emus (so possibly all Ratites?); Mynahs (Lydia suggested that); Gulls (?); and Geese (!?).
Needs a bit more research, don't have time now but I'll have another go tomorrow, you've got me interested.
Bill.
Sue Wright
Well-known member
mauricek said:
Hi Maurice,
Until Bill gets back with his information in the morning; Gruiformes means Crane-like Birds - inland marsh-dwelling birds with long legs and necks and bills that wade in water in search of food: cranes; rails; bustards. I think there are about 12 families all told but the rest I'll leave to Bill as I haven't a clue either! :egghead:
Goodnight Maurice and sleep well.
Sue
Ruth Daniel
Well-known member
Hi all,
I'm sure Herons have them.
And I'm assuming that any bird (ie;sea birds)that feeds it's young by regurgitation would have them too????
Unless they regurgitate from the stomach??
Good one Andy......will be interesting to see what we all come up with...Oh!!! excuse the pun!!!lol :eek!:
Best wishes,
I'm sure Herons have them.
And I'm assuming that any bird (ie;sea birds)that feeds it's young by regurgitation would have them too????
Unless they regurgitate from the stomach??
Good one Andy......will be interesting to see what we all come up with...Oh!!! excuse the pun!!!lol :eek!:
Best wishes,
Hi Andy,
Well, you've started something here. I've now had not only a good Google (works wonders, or am I thinking of something else?) but I've had a chat to someone who knows more about these things than I do (not difficult) and he's had a look at several learned tomes (to go with the ones that I've looked at) and we've come to the conclusion that there is no definite pattern to which Species have crops and which don't. At this point, if anyone can prove that wrong I shall be delighted.
There is no doubt that, in general, seed-eaters do usually have crops, whereas flesh-eaters usually don't, but the problem is that SOME flesh-eaters DO (some Vultures). There is also a grey area about what constitutes a 'crop'. It's basically a modified area of the Oesophagus (gullet) and different Species show different levels of modification so that it's not always easy to define whether a bird has a crop or not.
Another possible definition is birds that feed their young by regurgitation but I can't work my way through all the web-sites about diseases of the crop and cage/pet birds to find anything concrete on this; come on some of you lot out there, get Googling, we need an answer to this one (if there is one).
So the list that I gave you yesterday is where I'm still at; I'm trying to verify Gulls and Geese and if I get anywhere I'll be back.
Sorry, that's the best that I can do at the moment.
Bill.
Well, you've started something here. I've now had not only a good Google (works wonders, or am I thinking of something else?) but I've had a chat to someone who knows more about these things than I do (not difficult) and he's had a look at several learned tomes (to go with the ones that I've looked at) and we've come to the conclusion that there is no definite pattern to which Species have crops and which don't. At this point, if anyone can prove that wrong I shall be delighted.
There is no doubt that, in general, seed-eaters do usually have crops, whereas flesh-eaters usually don't, but the problem is that SOME flesh-eaters DO (some Vultures). There is also a grey area about what constitutes a 'crop'. It's basically a modified area of the Oesophagus (gullet) and different Species show different levels of modification so that it's not always easy to define whether a bird has a crop or not.
Another possible definition is birds that feed their young by regurgitation but I can't work my way through all the web-sites about diseases of the crop and cage/pet birds to find anything concrete on this; come on some of you lot out there, get Googling, we need an answer to this one (if there is one).
So the list that I gave you yesterday is where I'm still at; I'm trying to verify Gulls and Geese and if I get anywhere I'll be back.
Sorry, that's the best that I can do at the moment.
Bill.
Hello everybody.As a very keen gardener,I appreciate the value of latin/greek names of all plants,birds,animals and fungi. It means that we can communicate with anyone in the world with the REAL common names.If the subject was garden plants I would probably use much of the latin names myself.I'm not as good at wild flowers as I should be though.I think I was a bit miffed that no one criticised or commented on my off the cuff observations on the subject.It takes me a long time to type things.28 mins. so far.That's enough of that.I am really looking forward to anyones research on the subject.Wouldn't it be a dull world if we knew every thing?
May your salix matsudana tortuosa thrive and your rosa xanthina spontania be floriferous.
maurice aka A.Marshtit I don't think. (42mins)
May your salix matsudana tortuosa thrive and your rosa xanthina spontania be floriferous.
maurice aka A.Marshtit I don't think. (42mins)
Mutter
Well-known member
Hi Bill / everyone
Here's something I found from
www.1911Encyclopaedia.org
http://38.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALIMENTARY_CANAL.htm
Alimentray canal
"In birds this region(oesophagus) frequently presents peculiarities. In Opisthocomus it forms an enormously wide double loop, hanging down over the breast-bone, which is peculiarly flattened and devoid of a keel in the anterior portion. In many birds part of the oesophagus may be temporarily dilated, forming a " crop," as for instance in birds of prey and humming birds. In the flamingo, many ducks, storks, and the cormorant the crop is a permanent although not a highly specialized enlargement. Finally, in the vast majority of seed-eating birds, in gallinaceous birds,, pigeons, sandgrouse, parrots and many Passeres, particularly the finches, the crop is a permanent globular dilatation, in which the food is retained for a considerable time, mixed with a slight mucous secretion, and softened and partly macerated by the heat of the body. Many birds feed their young from the soft contents of the crop, and in pigeons, at the breeding season, the cells lining the crop proliferate rapidly and are discharged as a soft cheesy mass into the cavity, forming the substance known as pigeon's milk. "
andy
Here's something I found from
www.1911Encyclopaedia.org
http://38.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALIMENTARY_CANAL.htm
Alimentray canal
"In birds this region(oesophagus) frequently presents peculiarities. In Opisthocomus it forms an enormously wide double loop, hanging down over the breast-bone, which is peculiarly flattened and devoid of a keel in the anterior portion. In many birds part of the oesophagus may be temporarily dilated, forming a " crop," as for instance in birds of prey and humming birds. In the flamingo, many ducks, storks, and the cormorant the crop is a permanent although not a highly specialized enlargement. Finally, in the vast majority of seed-eating birds, in gallinaceous birds,, pigeons, sandgrouse, parrots and many Passeres, particularly the finches, the crop is a permanent globular dilatation, in which the food is retained for a considerable time, mixed with a slight mucous secretion, and softened and partly macerated by the heat of the body. Many birds feed their young from the soft contents of the crop, and in pigeons, at the breeding season, the cells lining the crop proliferate rapidly and are discharged as a soft cheesy mass into the cavity, forming the substance known as pigeon's milk. "
andy
matt green
Norfolkman gone walkabout
mutleymacclad said:
i'll settle for that!
incedentally last autumn we watched a woodpigeon scoff 17 large acorns from
our miniture mirbeck oak tree in the front garden.
wonder how much pigeon milk that would make!!
matt
Last edited:
Back again.I've just realised that I was on the wrong tack and thinking more about the gizzard which is another interesting subject.That'll stop me jumping in. Why didn't you stop me?Were you being polite?Naaa.
maurice. I'll have to take a tablet and have a lie down now.
maurice. I'll have to take a tablet and have a lie down now.
Cathy H
Cathy H
I don't dooo technical on the subject, I just sat there thinking my jays were greedy so and so's for guzzling all those peanuts and acorns so quickly, then I realised they were putting them in their crop and putting them by for later. It kind of reminded me of my hamster when I was little - now there's a group, jays and hamsters!!!
Cheers, B
Cheers, B
Hi Andy,
Thanks for that info, I hadn't found that reference. That confirms what I said, that there are different levels of Oesophagus modifications and whether it's called a 'crop' or not appears to be a bit hit and miss.
Anyway, I've done a bit more digging and although I haven't got every 'Order' (there are 28 of them) sorted I have got most of them. Out of deference to Maurice I'm not going to use Latin names, in fact I'm not going to use names at all (well, just one)
There are (according to the Encyclopaedia that I've been using for ref, pub 1985) just under 9000 Species of birds world-wide. As far as I can calculate there are about 1000 species that do not have a crop. The main families are the ones that I listed before, plus Waterfowl.
The answer to your original question about smaller garden/woodland birds is 'Yes', it's mainly the larger birds that haven't.
Interesting subject, I've learned a lot.
Bill.
Thanks for that info, I hadn't found that reference. That confirms what I said, that there are different levels of Oesophagus modifications and whether it's called a 'crop' or not appears to be a bit hit and miss.
Anyway, I've done a bit more digging and although I haven't got every 'Order' (there are 28 of them) sorted I have got most of them. Out of deference to Maurice I'm not going to use Latin names, in fact I'm not going to use names at all (well, just one)
There are (according to the Encyclopaedia that I've been using for ref, pub 1985) just under 9000 Species of birds world-wide. As far as I can calculate there are about 1000 species that do not have a crop. The main families are the ones that I listed before, plus Waterfowl.
The answer to your original question about smaller garden/woodland birds is 'Yes', it's mainly the larger birds that haven't.
Interesting subject, I've learned a lot.
Bill.
mutleymacclad said:
Hi Andy,
There are a few more species now, some newly discovered and some due to taxonomic splits. Currently the accepted maximum is about 10,000 species, if you accept all of the splits then you could get up to about 10,200 species.
http://www.ornitaxa.com/SM/TaxChanges.html gives you an ascii file of the entire list if you want one
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