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what is this water bird in Pine Mountain, GA? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sandrinhalee
- Start date
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Allow me to add, this is not one of those cut-and-dry IDs, Sandrinhalee, so I'm really glad we got a shot at these photos. Seeing many young herons/egrets is the best way to wrap your head around this ID challenge. You know what they say about Carnegie State Park!
...well, they don't say anything about it, because it doesn't exist. But if it did, you know what they'd say.
...well, they don't say anything about it, because it doesn't exist. But if it did, you know what they'd say.
Larry Lade
Moderator
I believe this bird could "go either way", juvenile Little Blue Heron or juvenile Snowy Egret. I am going to go for the former oweing mostly to the apparent, substantial bill which would favor the Little Blue Heron more than the Snowy Egret.
* Sibley states that some juveniles of these two species show extreme similarity from July through October.
* Sibley states that some juveniles of these two species show extreme similarity from July through October.
I was hoping for a good back and forth on this one!
EDIT: Aw! 8-P
Drat! :C Don't you have something better to do -- like edit Opus -- than capture my old posts just before I edit them!
Cheers,
Jim
Juvenile Snowy Egret also shows a bicolored bill with a dark tip. When I increase the color saturation on the photo in my photo editing program, the yellow coloration on the legs definitely increases. In my experience this generally accurately reflects the shading of subtle colors. Here is one photo of a Little Blue Heron showing what look to me to be more greenish legs: http://www.birdsasart.com/231/littleblueheron.jpg
I cannot see the lores clearly enough to get an accurate take on them. I am not sure; perhaps not definitely identifiable from these photos.
Best,
Jim
Drat! :C Don't you have something better to do -- like edit Opus -- than capture my old posts just before I edit them!
Cheers,
Jim
Hahaha :-O
I decided to take a nice little coffee break from the Opus - maybe a leisurely stroll through the ID forum...
It's like chess, Jim. The second you take your hand off that piece... 8-P
Oh man! SUCH a good topic! After delving extensively into resources, I am (*GASP*) jumping back up onto the fence (of course, inadvertently faking out Jim; EDIT: Who I now see is with me on the fence)! In fact, in line with Larry's comment, I'm not sure we can nail down this one definitively!
Indeed he does. Notice how that note is specifically accompanying side-by-side close-ups of lores - it's not directly discussed to what degree leg color can overlap. In my initial post, I believed this individual's legs too be far enough on the yellow side to definitively say Snowy. However, after looking through many photos of young Little Blues - the great majority of which display unquestionably greenish (howabout that for an oxymoron? "unquestionably greenISH"
) legs - I've found some Little Blues with exceptionally yellow legs:http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=181093
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=152037
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4811
Because of these photos, I join Larry's "go-either-way" camp. No field marks seen can definitely point to either species.
On an additional note, I found an interesting quote in Howell & Webb (Mexico & Northern Central America) regarding Little Blue juvie plumage:
Emphasis is mine.
Now I can't see these "dusky tips" in photo2, but frankly, that's the first I've heard of this ID marker, I couldn't find any photos which show this, and I can't speak to whether or not this refers only to Mexican populations.
"Not cut-and-dry" indeed!
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Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
I'm in the little blue camp. The bill in photo 2 just screams little blue to me - bluish at the base with a dark tip and very beefy. And the snowies I've seen still have darkish legs with a yellowish tinge, not bright yellow.
To my eyes, all those photos show birds with legs having a distinctly greenish tinge. Perhaps you could call it greenish-yellow, but it is not the yellow I see on a snowy or great egret. I am still on the fence because of the quality of the photos, but I think the leg color is a reliable field mark.
Best,
Jim
sandrinhalee
bird happy
Motmot
Eduardo Amengual
On an additional note, I found an interesting quote in Howell & Webb (Mexico & Northern Central America) regarding Little Blue juvie plumage:
Emphasis is mine.
Now I can't see these "dusky tips" in photo2, but frankly, that's the first I've heard of this ID marker, I couldn't find any photos which show this, and I can't speak to whether or not this refers only to Mexican populations.
"Not cut-and-dry" indeed!
Not just mexican. Check these gringo ones:
http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/September-07-j/J101367-juv-lil-blue.jpg
http://www.jrcompton.com/photos/The_Birds/J/September-07-j/J101368-juv-lil-blu-fly.jpg
http://www.indianaaudubon.org/guide/photopages/TrabueLBHE.htm
New image of the subject bird flying doesn't show those marks. At first I thought LBH, not sure now, tough id...
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Ooh! Nice! :t:
dantheman
Bah humbug
My Sibley (Field Guide To the Birds of Eastern North America) illustrates the dark tips . . (distinctive but often difficult to see) in the flight illustration . .
An aside - Isn't it the case that a feature of the pigment melanin is that it confers a slightly stronger property to feathers compared to those without it (why some albinstic feathers on other wise ordinary birds wear quicker?). Or am I just imagining this?
If so, a cool adaption, keep the wingtips in tip-top condition, so to speak
(And I can't see any black at all on the above flight photos either . . )
An aside - Isn't it the case that a feature of the pigment melanin is that it confers a slightly stronger property to feathers compared to those without it (why some albinstic feathers on other wise ordinary birds wear quicker?). Or am I just imagining this?
If so, a cool adaption, keep the wingtips in tip-top condition, so to speak
(And I can't see any black at all on the above flight photos either . . )
rjackb
Well-known member
I definitely do not think this is a Snowy Egret. It doesn't have the right coloration of legs or bill, the shape of neither the body nor head seems right, it has an unusual posture for a Snowy, etc. My opinion is primarily based on personal observation in the field of hundreds of Snowy Egrets of all ages and a review of my photographs of quite a few of them.
Although with less confidence, I do think the bird in question most likely is a juvenile Little Blue Heron. Besides there being no other reasonable possibilities given the location, my opinion is based on personal observation and photographs of a lesser number of Little Blue Herons (than Snowys), and a single juvenile Little Blue Heron. A cursory reading of my bird books and quick check of BNA online would seem to support this ID.
I haven't read this entire thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything that was already said or missed a really good explanation to support an ID.
Jack
Although with less confidence, I do think the bird in question most likely is a juvenile Little Blue Heron. Besides there being no other reasonable possibilities given the location, my opinion is based on personal observation and photographs of a lesser number of Little Blue Herons (than Snowys), and a single juvenile Little Blue Heron. A cursory reading of my bird books and quick check of BNA online would seem to support this ID.
I haven't read this entire thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything that was already said or missed a really good explanation to support an ID.
Jack
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