Waders for ID - Bulgaria (1 Viewer)

[raddev]

Hello everyone, due to the distance of the birds and the bad photos - these are way over of my ID skills, so I ask for help.

Based on the wing pattern on the back ( where visible ) I think I was able to reduce the possible species to two - either Little stints or Broad-billed sandpipers but given the latter are much rarer I guess these should be Little stints? Are there more clues pointing to that species?

Thank you all!

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Isn't the Sanderling another option ?

 

[THE_FERN]

Isn't the Sanderling another option ?

that was my first thought. But do you agree they look quite dainty, perhaps not as robust as sanderling?

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

that was my first thought. But do you agree they look quite dainty, perhaps not as robust as sanderling?

Blurry photos can give some wrong impressions, but I don't see any other options with the upperparts pattern.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

IMO the wing bar is much broader than in Little Stint or Broad-Billed Sandpiper (or any other stint/sandpiper!), so I guess it's a Sanderling.
The birds are far away, so if they had a narrower wing bar, it wouldn't be visible on these photos I guess (or it would be seen as a very narrow, thin line).

 

[lou salomon]

not reliably identifiable from these pics but Little Stint is the most likely option, given they are in a largish flock over an apparent inland water body. In such pics white wing markings (stripes) notoriously appear a bit broader than in real life. And as THE FERN already said, they look dainty, gracile, as opposed to the the more robust Sanderling.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

not reliably identifiable from these pics but Little Stint is the most likely option, given they are in a largish flock over an apparent inland water body. In such pics white wing markings (stripes) notoriously appear a bit broader than in real life. And as THE FERN already said, they look dainty, gracile, as opposed to the the more robust Sanderling.

Sanderling is common on the Bulgarian coastal area. The black band on the wing show here with green arrows is typical of Sanderling and exclude the Little Stint. I'm not sure if we can consider a mixed flocks, but these individuals are Sanderlings.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

I can add that stints/sandpipers don't have an evident wing bar extended to primaries. Sanderlings do, and the OP's birds seem to have a wing bar on primaries, which favour the Sanderling. The extended wing bar can be seen on the circled bird.
And of course, Valéry has pointed a very useful feature: black edges to the white wingbar which rule out any Little Stints or any other stints. Thank you Valéry for pointing it out!
Now, we have 3 features favouring the Sanderling.

 

[kuzeycem]

I can add that stints/sandpipers don't have an evident wing bar extended to primaries. Sanderlings do, and the OP's birds seem to have a wing bar on primaries, which favour the Sanderling. The extended wing bar can be seen on the circled bird.
And of course, Valéry has pointed a very useful feature: black edges to the white wingbar which rule out any Little Stints or any other stints. Thank you Valéry for pointing it out!
Now, we have 3 features favouring the Sanderling.

These are Sanderling too, then?

ML619015419 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML619015419; © Умедджон Набиев; Dushanbe, Tajikistan

macaulaylibrary.org

ML622254554 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML622254554; © Uriel Levy; HaZafon, Israel

macaulaylibrary.org

ML472568891 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML472568891; © Lars Petersson | My World of Bird Photography; Jönköpings län [SE-06], Sweden

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

These are Sanderling too, then?

ML619015419 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML619015419; © Умедджон Набиев; Dushanbe, Tajikistan

macaulaylibrary.org

ML622254554 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML622254554; © Uriel Levy; HaZafon, Israel

macaulaylibrary.org

ML472568891 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML472568891; © Lars Petersson | My World of Bird Photography; Jönköpings län [SE-06], Sweden

macaulaylibrary.org

Thank you, showing well the differences between OP birds and Little Stints.

 

[kuzeycem]

Thank you, showing well the differences between OP birds and Little Stints.

If you had any actual competency here, I imagine you'd explain yourself rather than leave a laugh react. Oh well.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

If you had any actual competency here, I imagine you'd explain yourself rather than leave a laugh react. Oh well.

I've explained already and add arrows to illustrate. It is far enough.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

Kuzeycem, the birds you've shown have much narrower wing bars. Even narrower on the primaries (from the distance, you will see a white line only on the secondaries). The OP's bird has much broader wing bars. Valéry has also pointed out the black edges to the wing bars, which make these birds Sanderlings. We've said all these features before. These are Sanderlings.

 

[kuzeycem]

Kuzeycem, the birds you've shown have much narrower wing bars. Even narrower on the primaries (from the distance, you will see a white line only on the secondaries). The OP's bird has much broader wing bars. Valéry has also pointed out the black edges to the wing bars, which make these birds Sanderlings. We've said all these features before. These are Sanderlings.

I can assure you that the wing patterns of the OP birds and the ones I've linked are virtually the same. Any discrepancy you might be seeing could be due to the differences in image quality; as Lou pointed out, out-of-focus images can make patterns appear broader than they are.
In the lone bird I've linked above, you can clearly see the black(ish) primary coverts, outer GCs and flight feathers. How is this any different from the OP birds?
I've linked below an equally terrible Little Stint flight photo. How is this any different from the e.g. circled bird in the 1st OP photo? It's not.

ML365948281 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML365948281; © Thomas Quartier; Aude, Occitanie, France

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I can assure you that the wing patterns of the OP birds and the ones I've linked are virtually the same. Any discrepancy you might be seeing could be due to the differences in image quality; as Lou pointed out, out-of-focus images can make patterns appear broader than they are.
In the lone bird I've linked above, you can clearly see the black(ish) primary coverts, outer GCs and flight feathers. How is this any different from the OP birds?
I've linked below an equally terrible Little Stint flight photo. How is this any different from the e.g. circled bird in the 1st OP photo? It's not.

ML365948281 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML365948281; © Thomas Quartier; Aude, Occitanie, France

macaulaylibrary.org

"How is this any different from the e.g. circled bird in the 1st OP photo? It's not."

Funny you do the questions and the answers. The differences are ovbious to me.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

How is this any different from the e.g. circled bird in the 1st OP photo? It's not.

It is. On the photo, you've linked, you can't see any black bands around the white wing bar. And you can see these bands on the OP's bird. You can also see a hint of black lesser coverts on the OP's bird which is typical of Sanderling.

But what am I actually saying? That's nothing new. I'm repeating what Valéry has said, because you still seem to be unconvinced. I don't see the point in constant repeating previous messages. You would've known why your bird is different from the OP's bird if you read Valéry's explanation above.

I may sometimes be uncertain about the ID, but in this particular case I am certain.

 

[CARERY]

Difficult light... Anyway, the upperwing pattern might leave room for discussion, the underwing pattern doesn't IMO. Little Stints show a broader dark leading edge but more important the the distal part of the primary coverts is dark as well, which can even be seen on blurry photos as the OP's

ML622995384 - Little Stint - Macaulay Library

For me all are Little Stints

 

[raddev]

Thank you everyone for taking your time!
Sorry for the bad photos that sparked such a controversy, that's a lesson learned to avoid ID-ing of such photos in public.

The reason I excluded the Sanderling is that its an inland reservoir and according to Collins illustrations there should be more white on the wing.

Again, thank you everyone!

 

[foresttwitcher]

No apology needed raddev and please keep posting any ID questions, most here will try to be helpful.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Thank you everyone for taking your time!
Sorry for the bad photos that sparked such a controversy, that's a lesson learned to avoid ID-ing of such photos in public.

The reason I excluded the Sanderling is that its an inland reservoir and according to Collins illustrations there should be more white on the wing.

Again, thank you everyone!

Many Sanderlings inland are misidentified because peple believe they should not me there. I've seen groups of hundreds of Sanderlings inland in Bulgaria, in Hungary, in Morocco, and this is therefore not a reason to exclude it. Moreover, there's much white in the wing of your birds, too much for Little Stint IMO.