Vegetable fat versus animal fats for bird cake (1 Viewer)

[Carless]

Hello everyone.

I'm trying to work out a good summary on whether animal fat or vegetable fat is better for making bird cake. I'm a vegan, and definitely do not want to use lard or animal suet.

My son wanted to make some bird cake. We used some solid vegetable fat which we had in the fridge. It's "Cooken" brand, and does not contain hydrogenated oils. It certainly made some bird cake, which is hanging up outside waiting to be discovered. But, is it a good thing to make bird cake out of vegetable fat?

The arguments online seem to fall into two camps. Those that claim that animal fats are better than vegetable fats because animal fats contain more saturates than vegetable fats. The most reliable looking source for this claim appears to be this forum, where someone got an email from the RSPB.

http://forum.biggonline.co.uk/viewt...start=15&sid=ba29e18196513f5f20f682985b62c0b1

Look for one of the answers by "Strixaluco", who eventually quotes the email. Note also the comments about liquid oils or margarine being worse for birds because of "plumage fouling".

On the other hand, here's another answer in the other direction, saying that vegetable fats are better for birds because the unsaturated fats are more easily digested. This reference has been quoted in this forum a couple of years ago. Note that it does reference an academic book on bird nutrition.

http://www.natureskeepers.com/suet_vs_veg_fat.html

Apart from these two posts, the only references I can find on animal versus vegetable fat are those (such as on this forum) where people "heard" something or other.

However, to confuse matters, I looked up the saturated fat content. Cooken says that it is 100% fat, of which 48% are saturated. According to the label. A similar product called Trex is again 100% fat, of which 37% are saturates. According to a web page:

http://www.foodcomp.dk/fcdb_details.asp?FoodId=0281

lard is about 36% saturated fat. This would mean that the vegetable fats we're using are actually higher in saturated fat than lard. This would reverse the answers, surely.

In any case, it looks like the crux of the question (providing the fat is suitably solid) is the amount of saturated versus unsaturated fat. And the difference between lard and lard substitutes appears to be small. Such that choosing a vegetable fat for personal reasons is not going to adversely affect birds.

Has anyone got better information or better references?

 

[baillieswells]

Hello everyone.

I'm trying to work out a good summary on whether animal fat or vegetable fat is better for making bird cake. I'm a vegan, and definitely do not want to use lard or animal suet.

My son wanted to make some bird cake. We used some solid vegetable fat which we had in the fridge. It's "Cooken" brand, and does not contain hydrogenated oils. It certainly made some bird cake, which is hanging up outside waiting to be discovered. But, is it a good thing to make bird cake out of vegetable fat?

The arguments online seem to fall into two camps. Those that claim that animal fats are better than vegetable fats because animal fats contain more saturates than vegetable fats. The most reliable looking source for this claim appears to be this forum, where someone got an email from the RSPB.

http://forum.biggonline.co.uk/viewt...start=15&sid=ba29e18196513f5f20f682985b62c0b1

Look for one of the answers by "Strixaluco", who eventually quotes the email. Note also the comments about liquid oils or margarine being worse for birds because of "plumage fouling".

On the other hand, here's another answer in the other direction, saying that vegetable fats are better for birds because the unsaturated fats are more easily digested. This reference has been quoted in this forum a couple of years ago. Note that it does reference an academic book on bird nutrition.

http://www.natureskeepers.com/suet_vs_veg_fat.html

Apart from these two posts, the only references I can find on animal versus vegetable fat are those (such as on this forum) where people "heard" something or other.

However, to confuse matters, I looked up the saturated fat content. Cooken says that it is 100% fat, of which 48% are saturated. According to the label. A similar product called Trex is again 100% fat, of which 37% are saturates. According to a web page:

http://www.foodcomp.dk/fcdb_details.asp?FoodId=0281

lard is about 36% saturated fat. This would mean that the vegetable fats we're using are actually higher in saturated fat than lard. This would reverse the answers, surely.

In any case, it looks like the crux of the question (providing the fat is suitably solid) is the amount of saturated versus unsaturated fat. And the difference between lard and lard substitutes appears to be small. Such that choosing a vegetable fat for personal reasons is not going to adversely affect birds.

Has anyone got better information or better references?

One of the problems is that many cooking fats contain trans-fats. These are of no use to man and beast, and are almost certainly worse for you than saturated fats. Unfortunately in the UK manufacturers do not list these in their table of ingredients. Though I understand regulations are being introduced to ban them. They have been banned in shops and particularly restaurants in NY City.

 

[Carless]

One of the problems is that many cooking fats contain trans-fats. These are of no use to man and beast, and are almost certainly worse for you than saturated fats. Unfortunately in the UK manufacturers do not list these in their table of ingredients. Though I understand regulations are being introduced to ban them. They have been banned in shops and particularly restaurants in NY City.

I thought trans-fats in vegetable fats were due to hydrogenation. I looked them up on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat

and this appears to be the case. So, in theory, if I'm using Cooken and Trex which (claim to) not include any hydrogenated oils, then I should be OK.

I was surprised to read that trans fats appear naturally in beef fat and dairy products. I thought they never occurred in nature.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Trans fats are only an issue for human health. All birds are worried about is the calorific content - how much energy they get out of it. The higher energy content, the better. So, see if your fats label kcal (kilocalories - they should have this info on the label), and choose the highest.

I wouldn't get too worried about it though, as it's still more calories than they're going to get from spiders and berries, whether it's lard or veg fat. So they can't really complain!

 

[Transformer]

Well, just cos you're vegan doesn't mean you have to impose that on the poor birds. They seem to enjoy the beef fat.

 

[Jane Turner]

The source of the fat is irrelevant to the birds. Choose a hard fat and they will be fine.

I used to work near a large manufacturer of detergent products and fabric conditioners. You could always identify what was the cheapest source of "fat" by the smell downwind. Coconut/palm oil generally and through the foot and mouth outbreak... Beef/mutton. Once you have stripped out all the impurities they are the same chemically. Its the longer alkyl chain ones you need (to set the bird cake).

 

[Mary Evelyn]

Always, always, always hard fats.


Well, just cos you're vegan doesn't mean you have to impose that on the poor birds.(Transformer)


I would agree with the above too.

 

[xFritzx]

The issue for some of us is that we choose not to support the meat/dairy industry, the main method used being not to help it financially. I dont buy animal products for myself and if i have the chance to aid birds whithin the structures of my beliefs then that can only be a positive thing. Cheers for all the info on here ive found it most helpfull

 

[Paddy Elsender]

This realy is an excellent site. The subscribers realy do know their stuff. I have learned an awful lot from various answers to questions posed by readers. For me as a beginner the site is better than any book for comprehensive answers without a load of waffle. Thank you birders. By the way I have made my own cakes with unsalted pork fat (German Brand) and Atora vegetable shredded suet (Expensive sent from UK) and to date not one complaint from my regular diners.
Regards to all. Pat Elsender.

 

[chris dooley]

"Polyunsaturated margarines or vegetable oils

These are unsuitable for birds. Unlike humans, birds need high levels of saturated fat, such as raw suet and lard. Birds will need the high energy content to keep warm in the worst of the winter weather, since their body reserves are quickly used up, particularly on cold winter nights. The soft fats can easily be smeared onto the feathers, destroying the waterproofing and insulating qualities."

The above quote was taken from an official RSPB web page.

 

[Paddy Elsender]

Veg versus Animal Fats.

Hi Folks, further to my last entry on this subject dd 16.01.07 and with reference to original query from CARLESS.
I decided to do a small experiment with both fats together. I made a cake in an empty baked beans tin. The first half of the tin contained a make up of mixed seeds, mainly black sunflower suspended in Atora Vegetable Suet. I then poured in another make up of same seed suspended in Unsalted Pork Suet which was poured on top of the set vegetable suet. After a couple of days in the freezer I warmed the tin up and forced the cake out. I placed the cake on a log I have on top of my garage as I don't have a garden (another story) anyway Siskins, Blue Tits, Great Tits, Robins, Coal Tits and the odd Starling have attacked the Animal Suet/Lard half of the cake with a ferocious vigour. They have also attacked the Veggie stuff but not with the same gusto as the Beastie stuff. The chaffinches' are noted to prefer the Veggie Stuff but still eat the Beastie stuff as well.
Conclusion. The majority of the species noted prefered the Beastie Suet Cake.
Maybe the Chaffinches' think they are more upper class than the others turning their beaks up at disgusting Animal Fats.
My own personal comment is "I'm glad I don't have to eat either to survive but a pan of chips in lard is far nicer than a pan of chips in vegetable oils, not very healthy I guess but great on the plate"
Regards to All.
Pat Elsender.

 

[hil5]

The issue for some of us is that we choose not to support the meat/dairy industry, the main method used being not to help it financially. I dont buy animal products for myself and if i have the chance to aid birds whithin the structures of my beliefs then that can only be a positive thing. Cheers for all the info on here ive found it most helpfull

Factory farming is not something I want to support either. I don't go as far as being a vegan myself but I prefer to use organic/free-range eggs, milk products etc. I commend the original poster for thinking about these issues.

Perhaps the anser is not to feed fat at all but concentrate on seeds, peanuts and fruit (blackbirds, thrushes, blackcaps, starlings love raisins preferably soaked in water first)

 

[dafi]

The only isue i have with fat feeders is once the weather gets warmer fat feeders with dripping/flour mixes to make them solid are prone to go rancid if thay are left to long. This brings the possibility of bactierial contamination with samonnella and other nastys so be aware if thay are furry chuck them if thay smell the slightest chuck them. Better safe than sorry.
As to the type of fat you cant beat properly rendered beef dripping from a local butcher for making your own [my recipie 1/3 dripping 1/3 wild bird seed 1/3 blitzed pea nuts.never fails!!

 

[christineredgate]

I use Crisp and Dry ,it being the hardest fat I can find.I heat 2 blocks in the microwave-10 mins,then mix in chopped nuts ,sultanas and bird seed.I put the fat cake in the freezer overnight to keep it firm.But when the weather heats up,will just use the commercial fat balls.