UK/Bird ID by pellets? Owl/Kestrel? (1 Viewer)

[gradders52]

Not sure this is the right forum, but start somewhere?
Quite simply can anyone ID birds from the pellets that remain at a feeding post?

I know Barn Owls have pellets but have seen Kestrel using 'hunting/feeding posts... got me thinking (always dangerous), do Kestrels regurgitate pellets too? I did see a Kestrel hunting/catching/ then feeding on a catch on a post. I believe they do and these might be Kestrel pellets (especially by size).

Anyway, here are a couple of pics... anyone ID the skull from the teeth? Skull is approx 15mm on longest dimension. Skull and lower mandible.

Anyone any thoughts, comments?
MANY THANKS
g

 

[turkish van]

The skull is a field vole (very nicely cleaned!), and the pellet looks as though it could be barn owl - blunt ends, smooth dark colour - but I could well be wrong. Pellets vary quite a lot. I've dissected far more barn owl pellets than anything else, and in each there's always 3 to 4 vole/shrew/mouse skulls (in that order of occurrence) with the fur and not much else. I think kestrel pellets are thinner and longer with a tapered end rather than squareish and blunt, and don't contain such exclusively 'chunky' prey remains - you'd be more likely to find insect remains and maybe some feathers. Did you dissect them all?

All raptors and many other birds like crows and gulls produce pellets - they're fascinating things, unfortunately most people don't see them that way!

 

[KnockerNorton]

Not sure you can rule out a Bank Vole for that skull - the teeth aren't clear.

Kestrels usually break food up a bit more - they're certainly unlikely to be swallowing a whole Field Vole's head. They also tend to be pale grey, like miniature fox droppings.

They look like Barn owl, but are rather small. Are they complete pellets?

 

[gradders52]

Pellets

Did you dissect them all?
... pellets - they're fascinating things, unfortunately most people don't see them that way!

Hi
First of all thanks for the replies, glad someone else see them as fascinating and part of the bird ID/world etc.

I know Owls and Kestrel use the same location for hunting and probably the same hunting pole/perch/feeding station, hence the dilemma.

No I haven't dissected all of them yet. Will do.
Sorry the skull pics aren't great, will try for better (didn't know if I'd get a response).

I did think Owl pellets were bigger and more 'rounded' and these seemed 'small and elongated'... but my first find, so no previous experience.

Kenbro, Are they complete pellets?

Yes they are as collected. Complete as found.

Will attempt further dissection but may take 48 hours or so.

Any other contributions appreciated.

MANY THANKS
g

 

[KnockerNorton]

What you need to i.d. rodent skulls is the underside of the molar (back) teeth.

Also look out for beetle wing cases. I think they're probably Barn Owl, but might be Little Owl due to size.

They certainly are fascinating - I once found a budgie in a Tawny Owl pellet, and last year a new species of introduced shrew was found in Irish Barn Owl pellets.

Don't make the classic error of picking up fox poo and thinking they're bird pellets though!

 

[turkish van]

I have seen Barn Owl pellets that small but agree they are usually bigger. I've never seen a Little Owl pellet (sadly they're not around these parts!) so would be very interested to find out if that's what they are. Second the fox poo comment, I once dissected one in the field as my enthusiasm overruled my head and before I clocked what it was! In my defence though I didn't have much experience of these things then. But not to be recommended!

 

[gradders52]

Not sure you can rule out a Bank Vole for that skull - the teeth aren't clear.

This any help? Obviously some teeth are missing.
Thanks
g

 

[turkish van]

Yep that helps, I stick with Field Vole. Nice pics by the way!

 

[gradders52]

These are the result of 'dissecting' one pellet. The rest of the remains from the pellet that contained the skull.

I find it interesting anyway!

The 'feeding' post is being frequented by kestrels at the moment.
Cheers
g

(don't think I'll be putting it back together from these bits and bobs!)

 

[KnockerNorton]

Yep that helps, I stick with Field Vole. Nice pics by the way!

Agree.

Bottom left of your bones pic is the scapula (shoulder blade). Next to that looks like back of the skull (this is rarely attached). Above that are (from left) femur, tibia (bottom of back leg), third from left is a pelvic bone, then the other tibia and then the other femur. At the top are ribs and phalanges/tarsals (paw/feet bones), with the front legs (humerus, radius, ulna - the long bones) mixed in.