The not so nice side of Pigeons. (2 Viewers)

[ChrisKten]

I've posted this in this sub-forum, and not Garden Birds, because I'd be interested in knowing whether this behaviour is seen in other bird species.

So, I've had a group of over 40 Pigeons in my garden for a few years (if you've read some of my other posts you'll know that there are many other birds as well). Because the Pigeons are there each day, and because I have the time, I've studied them quite a bit. I also study the other birds, but I've learned more about Pigeons.

Anyway, most are aware that Pigeons' mating ritual involves a lot of cooing, some spinning round, fanning the tail, and the odd clap of the wings, and that's just the male. The male basically "gets in her face" so to speak, he'll often fly over the female's head to get in front of her. The female just pretends to ignore the display and walks or flies off, unless she's interested.

So, if the male succeeds there follows a lot of locking of beaks and bobbing of heads, then they both sort of clean under one wing. Then the female makes the male lock beaks some more until she's had enough "kissing" (sound familiar?|=)|). Finally the female squashes herself pretty flat on the ground, the male flies on top of her, and they mate.

After mating the male follows the female wherever she goes, like they are joined by invisible string. If the female gets close to other males, her mate pecks her head (sometimes quite violently) so she moves away. AFAIK, this following and pecking continues until she lays eggs.

So it's pretty much up to the female who she mates with, as in most other species.

So where's the "not so nice side" in the thread title?

Well, all this changes if a sick female arrives in the garden. Males do a quick little dance, she's too ill to bother to fly off, the male jumps on her back, mates, and then flies off. Other males watching follow suit, but not always, sometimes it's just the one male that mates.

So did you notice the difference? No prolonged mating ritual by the male, no locking of beaks, and the male didn't stay with the female. Like I said in the title, "The not so nice side of Pigeons".

 

[Henry B]

Life,s like that ,sometimes.

 

[ChrisKten]

Life,s like that ,sometimes.

Yes it is. But I still wonder what the reason is for the male Pigeons' behaviour.

Why don't they care whether other males mate with the sick female?

Why bother to mate if you are not going to stay with the female to help ensure the survival of your offspring? (no nest building, no shared nesting duties, incubation, feeding of young)

Do the males mate with sick/weak females simply because they can?

Why not the full mating ritual? Why no beak locking? Why no head under the wing before mating?

OK, maybe it's just my natural curiousity, but I think this behaviour is interesting to say the least. It doesn't make sense, unless Pigeons are like Primates and enjoy the mating itself even if no offspring result from the coupling?

 

[James_Owen]

I suppose it would be a poor strategy to stay with a sick mate after copulation, so perhaps the males that do mate with those females are just hedging their bets. After all there's still a chance she may successfully raise a brood and pass on his genes, just a smaller one. So long as that male raises a normal brood aswell, his chances of healthy offspring have only been increased.
Alternatively, perhaps the ones that mate with sickly females are weaker males that otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity.

I guess my point is there's likely some sort of Darwinian logic behind it all, and I'd doubt it's just for kicks.

 

[ChrisKten]

I suppose it would be a poor strategy to stay with a sick mate after copulation, so perhaps the males that do mate with those females are just hedging their bets. After all there's still a chance she may successfully raise a brood and pass on his genes, just a smaller one. So long as that male raises a normal brood aswell, his chances of healthy offspring have only been increased.
Alternatively, perhaps the ones that mate with sickly females are weaker males that otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity.

I guess my point is there's likely some sort of Darwinian logic behind it all, and I'd doubt it's just for kicks.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I agree that there should be some logical (as far as species survival is concerned) explanation, but I can't quite make sense of it.

I suppose that the males part in the mating ritual is only as intricate as it needs to be. Some females might accept the male's advances more quickly than others. The sick females appear to accept the advances, so the male doesn't need to go through the whole ritual. But staying with, and isolating, the female seems to be a pretty strong instinct. Not just to ensure that it's the males genes that are passed on, but also to ensure the survival of the young.

Both parents share incubating the eggs, surely a lone parent would either die of starvation, or the eggs would fail to hatch due the parent leaving to eat.

I'm also confused as to why there is no beak locking and bobbing up and down. That is always a precursor to the act of mating, the only exception being sick females. But again, I suppose it could be because it's unnecessary as the female appears to not need the ritual. I say "appears" because the female is usually so sick and weak that she doesn't seem to be aware of what's happening.

There's also something else, the sick females are not pecked by the other Pigeons. Usually a sick bird is pecked by the other Pigeons until it flies off.

I just feel that I'm missing something here, there's something going on that doesn't quite make sense.

 

[s. james]

Interesting observations again Chris. Not sure what's going on but keep making notes and you might work it out. It doesn't seem too nice at the minute (and could well turn out that way) but you never know what will happen next!

OK, maybe it's just my natural curiousity, but I think this behaviour is interesting to say the least. It doesn't make sense, unless Pigeons are like Primates and enjoy the mating itself even if no offspring result from the coupling?

I guess my point is there's likely some sort of Darwinian logic behind it all, and I'd doubt it's just for kicks.

I've long suspected that birds find important activities like mating, feeding, singing, bathing, sunbathing etc. enjoyable in much the same way as humans do. This doesn't mean there's not a Darwinian explanation for them. Some scientists would prefer to describe these behaviours as "reinforcing" (rather than enjoyable) or "autotelic" (for activities that are apparently done for their own sake). Some studies show that birds seem to enjoy these activities e.g. Bernd Heinrich found that young ravens often endulged in vigorous communal bathing; when he dirtied their plumage with various things including honey etc. they were no more likely to bathe.

 

[James_Owen]

Without venturing into how sentient pigeons might be, I'd have thought they 'enjoyed' mating, feeding, whatever, because it's advantageous behaviour and they've therefore evolved to feel good when they do those things - if indeed we can think of them as enjoying anything.
Unfortunately this fails to explain why I like watching The Simpsons.

 

[ChrisKten]

Interesting observations again Chris. Not sure what's going on but keep making notes and you might work it out. It doesn't seem too nice at the minute (and could well turn out that way) but you never know what will happen next!





I've long suspected that birds find important activities like mating, feeding, singing, bathing, sunbathing etc. enjoyable in much the same way as humans do. This doesn't mean there's not a Darwinian explanation for them. Some scientists would prefer to describe these behaviours as "reinforcing" (rather than enjoyable) or "autotelic" (for activities that are apparently done for their own sake). Some studies show that birds seem to enjoy these activities e.g. Bernd Heinrich found that young ravens often endulged in vigorous communal bathing; when he dirtied their plumage with various things including honey etc. they were no more likely to bathe.

Hi Stephen,

I find it very easy to accept your example of the Ravens. I'm as sure as I can be (no science, just a feeling obtained through observation) that birds enjoy certain activities. Just watch Starlings bathing, you can almost see them laughing. I've also seen birds exhibit what I can easily believe is sadness. I'm also very sure that birds are far from stupid.

It's funny how the more that I observe, the more questions I have. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.|=)|

 

[ChrisKten]

Without venturing into how sentient pigeons might be, I'd have thought they 'enjoyed' mating, feeding, whatever, because it's advantageous behaviour and they've therefore evolved to feel good when they do those things - if indeed we can think of them as enjoying anything.
Unfortunately this fails to explain why I like watching The Simpsons.

Yeah, I agree for the most part, apart from the Simpsons.|=)|

I'm also unsure how we could ever "know" if another species is enjoying anything. I think we see what we want to see (Anthropomorphism), although that doesn't mean ii isn't there.

 

[ChrisKten]

OK, here's something else to ponder. I noticed a Starling with an injured leg this morning. She (I'm guessing she, because of what I saw later) can't put pressure on her leg, so she's resting where she can in the garden. I'd better say now that I tried to catch her (Not straight away, I only intervene if a bird is vulnerable to an attack by a Cat, or is suffering. I wait to see if the bird recovers enough to fend for itself)

So as she is resting a male Pigeon approached her, I thought he'd probably peck her as Pigeons and Starlings compete for food in my garden. But he didn't peck her, instead he started doing his mating dance. There were no other Pigeons anywhere near, his dance/cooing was directed at the injured Starling. (I tapped on the window to stop it, seemed like the right thing to do at the time. Although if it happens again I'll video it).

Now what I'm wondering is whether there is a pheromone (do birds release pheromones?) released when a bird is sick/injured, and whether this somehow arouses the male Pigeons. If this is so, then the sick female Pigeons I've been observing, may not have all been female.

This gets stranger by the day.

(I was unable to catch the injured Starling as she hopped into next door's garden. If I see her later, and she's not flying, I'll catch her)