Ted's question on the Mk5 Collimator (1 Viewer)

[WJC]

220923

Hi Ted,

I will try to answer since my answer did not go through yesterday.

First, you are NOT intruding.

Secondly, you asked, “Why are the Mk5s so important?”

The Mk5s are NOT important! 3-axis COLLIMATION is important and the Mk5 is one of the fastest / simplest ways to make it so. Either of my binocular books will illustrate that there are several types of collimators in use today or have been devised since the Second World War. The first book has 38 pages on collimation. All of the second book (68 pages) deals with collimation.

The technology was developed by the US Navy prior to WWII and the US military had a number of devices, of which the Mk5 with the auxiliary telescope is the lightest and simplest—it’s just a telescope used backwards with a full aperture reticle.

Not many people have one because they were created by the US Navy—not the civilian world—to be used aboard tenders like my ship, the USS Grand Canyon. One of the earliest models was the British Mark 1. It would improve your alignment but it still did much of its work by forcing your eye’s rectus muscles to accommodate the error. The British Mark 1 was put into service in the First World War and was considered obsolete by 1941. The image is attached.

Those who believe in just looking at a roofline or power pole to collimate apparently think a steering wheel on a car is unnecessary. The second attachment explains more thoroughly.

Observers on BirdForum, Cloudy Nights, First Light Optics, and others speak endlessly about the anomalies and aberrations in their binoculars. Yet, talk is cheap and only useful in helping on achieve a level of expertise in knowing what he is talking about ... whether he does or not. Collimation is the ONLY aberration that the observer can do anything about.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Ted Y.]

Thank you, @WJC

 

[RandyBo]

In a perfect world I would assume 100% collimation is the goal but, in the real world is that goal achievable or even necessary (even if someone like yourself or Leica is performing the collimation)?

 

[WJC]

In a perfect world I would assume 100% collimation is the goal but, in the real world is that goal achievable or even necessary (if someone like yourself or Leica is performing the collimation)?

There is no such thing as "perfect" collimation, "spot on" and other pieces of bull. I've collimated something over 12,000 and have never performed collimation to perfection. It doesn't exist. To a point that the most finicky cannot notice the difference? Yes. But perfection ... no! Temperature and humidity won't allow it!

 

[RandyBo]

There is no such thing as "perfect" collimation, "spot on" and other pieces of bull. I've collimated something over 12,000 and have never performed collimation to perfection. It doesn't exist. To a point that the most finicky cannot notice the difference? Yes. But perfection ... no! Temperature and humidity won't allow it!

As a retired underground surveyor I can really appreciate that answer.

 

[WJC]

As a retired underground surveyor I can really appreciate that answer.

My Family's roots go back to Monroe and Barren counties.

 

[RandyBo]

My Family's roots go back to Monroe and Barren counties.

Small world…Most of my family roots start and remain in Harlan County.

 

[RandyBo]

@WJC
I would appreciate your thoughts on this: Why Buy from Us?

“Every Oberwerk binocular is tested and tuned to perfection in Dayton, Ohio by Oberwerk founder Kevin Busarow, and comes with a hand-written check-out list. An Oberwerk serial number is assigned and laser-engraved only after a binocular completes this quality assurance process. Over the last two decades, Kevin has tested close to 30,000 binoculars (including around 6500 Long-Range Observation binocularsand Binocular Telescopes), and is one of the most-experienced (and fanatical) optical techs in the business. Kevin’s testing involves numerous optical and mechanical checks, with a special emphasis on “collimation” (alignment).
After training on the Navy Mark V collimator, Kevin built a collimator from a surplus spy plane camera lens. Since then, Oberwerk has obtained the real deal- an ultra-rare genuine Navy Mark V.
As the world’s leading supplier of high-power binoculars, we understand how important it is that our binoculars are as perfectly-aligned as mechanically possible, in order to provide well-merged images with no eyestrain, at any IPD setting. Kevin applies the same level of precise alignment required by our high-magnification binocular telescopes across the entire product line, down to the least-expensive low-magnification models, making Oberwerk binoculars the most perfectly-collimated binoculars on the market.”

 

[Ted Y.]

3-axis COLLIMATION is important

From your book, it is clear that just watching a cable is not enough to be sure all is OK about collimation.
Cablewatching can detect only one of the types of out of collimation.

My reality: I have zero interest to try to do the work myself, I do not know any shop inspecting for the collimation.


Questions:

How one can procede to be sure the collimation is in prescribed parameters?
-Sending the binocular to the manufacturer support each year/2 years/etc.? I doubt is acceptable for the support.
-Or only after dropping the optics?
-Or, is nothing one can do to have updated resuts from inspection?

Or the probability to have/generate out of collimation situation is low, do not worry about?

Meaning: it is important, how one can take care of it? (not home)

 

[WJC]

@WJC
I would appreciate your thoughts on this: Why Buy from Us?

“Every Oberwerk binocular is tested and tuned to perfection in Dayton, Ohio by Oberwerk founder Kevin Busarow, and comes with a hand-written check-out list. An Oberwerk serial number is assigned and laser-engraved only after a binocular completes this quality assurance process. Over the last two decades, Kevin has tested close to 30,000 binoculars (including around 6500 Long-Range Observation binocularsand Binocular Telescopes), and is one of the most-experienced (and fanatical) optical techs in the business. Kevin’s testing involves numerous optical and mechanical checks, with a special emphasis on “collimation” (alignment).
After training on the Navy Mark V collimator, Kevin built a collimator from a surplus spy plane camera lens. Since then, Oberwerk has obtained the real deal- an ultra-rare genuine Navy Mark V.
As the world’s leading supplier of high-power binoculars, we understand how important it is that our binoculars are as perfectly-aligned as mechanically possible, in order to provide well-merged images with no eyestrain, at any IPD setting. Kevin applies the same level of precise alignment required by our high-magnification binocular telescopes across the entire product line, down to the least-expensive low-magnification models, making Oberwerk binoculars the most perfectly-collimated binoculars on the market.”

220924

There is no such thing as “perfection” in optics—period! Not in collimation ... or anything else! I believe his statement about as, “perfectly-alignment as “mechanically possible,” is true.

Kevin is a nice guy. I have known him for decades and have liked him as long. He does, however, have a propensity to overstate certain conditions. In one place, he states, “Oberwerk the only binocular retailer in the USA with an in-house collimator (and the knowledge to use one).” Actually, I own two and know the whereabouts of 5 others. Are they still rare? Oh, yes! But “only?” Sorry, no! You may note that it took over 10 years for him to see the need or that it took Cory and me to get him trained.

Cory and I tried so hard to save him from himself. But the exact words he repeatedly used on Cory and me were, “I don’t need a collimator; I can eyeball collimation to 100 power!” I think he believes in the Easter Bunny, too. (Yes, I’m having a little fun at Kevin’s expense.)

When, in 1999, Kevin Started “Big Binoculars,” I had been repairing binoculars, and designing telescopes, optical elements, and manufacturing optics for more than a decade at Captain's alone and was building an international reputation for doing so.

I think it a bit strange he would say that considering when the attached photo was taken, Cory Suddarth (US Navy Opticalman First Class) and Bill Cook (US Navy Chief Opticalman) had been trying to bring him into the realities of collimation for over 10 years. Sometime later, Keven produced 2 video tapes to say that my “Conditional Alignment” was a myth! Well, Kevin has since learned that, “Blowing out your neighbor’s candle does not make your own shine brighter.” He did not understand the spatial accommodation provided by the eye’s rectus muscles. So, with visiting Cory’s workshop for training on collimation and me giving an invited lecture on Collimation Vs. Conditional Alignment to the optical PhDs of SPIE, he had to eat his words.

On his behalf, I would say that he made his comments out of ignorance of the subject. The world of consumer optics thrives on what those consumers don’t know, and that—across the board—they believe everything they see in print ... an auto-focus binocular, anyone?

Good advertising need not be accurate, or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

 

[RandyBo]

220924

There is no such thing as “perfection” in optics—period! Not in collimation ... or anything else! I believe his statement about as, “perfectly-alignment as “mechanically possible,” is true.

Kevin is a nice guy. I have known him for decades and have liked him as long. He does, however, have a propensity to overstate certain conditions. In one place, he states, “Oberwerk the only binocular retailer in the USA with an in-house collimator (and the knowledge to use one).” Actually, I own two and know the whereabouts of 5 others. Are they still rare? Oh, yes! But “only?” Sorry, no! You may note that it took over 10 years for him to see the need or that it took Cory and me to get him trained.

Cory and I tried so hard to save him from himself. But the exact words he repeatedly used on Cory and me were, “I don’t need a collimator; I can eyeball collimation to 100 power!” I think he believes in the Easter Bunny, too. (Yes, I’m having a little fun at Kevin’s expense.)

When, in 1999, Kevin Started “Big Binoculars,” I had been repairing binoculars, and designing telescopes, optical elements, and manufacturing optics for more than a decade at Captain's alone and was building an international reputation for doing so.

I think it a bit strange he would say that considering when the attached photo was taken, Cory Suddarth (US Navy Opticalman First Class) and Bill Cook (US Navy Chief Opticalman) had been trying to bring him into the realities of collimation for over 10 years. Sometime later, Keven produced 2 video tapes to say that my “Conditional Alignment” was a myth! Well, Kevin has since learned that, “Blowing out your neighbor’s candle does not make your own shine brighter.” He did not understand the spatial accommodation provided by the eye’s rectus muscles. So, with visiting Cory’s workshop for training on collimation and me giving an invited lecture on Collimation Vs. Conditional Alignment to the optical PhDs of SPIE, he had to eat his words.

On his behalf, I would say that he made his comments out of ignorance of the subject. The world of consumer optics thrives on what those consumers don’t know, and that—across the board—they believe everything they see in print ... an auto-focus binocular, anyone?

Good advertising need not be accurate, or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

Thank You, for the reply.

“making Oberwerk binoculars the most perfectly-collimated binoculars on the market.”

This statement alone is a real turn-off for me.

 

[WJC]

Thank You, for the reply.

“making Oberwerk binoculars the most perfectly-collimated binoculars on the market.”

This statement alone is a real turn-off for me.

And for anyone who is not clueless! But when it comes to optics ... that's MOST of the world, especially the self-appointed optical engineers.

 

[Ted Y.]

Meaning: it is important, how one can take care of it?

It seems no answers exist. OK.
This is my method: if I have a headache when using the binocular, must be the collimation.
If I do not have a headache, it means nothing about the collimation. Can be in parameters or not, but not so severe to be unpleasant.
Regarding the collimation, I am out.

 

[WJC]

It seems no answers exist. OK.
This is my method: if I have a headache when using the binocular, must be the collimation.
If I do not have a headache, it means nothing about the collimation. Can be in parameters or not, but not so severe to be unpleasant.
Regarding the collimation, I am out.

A poor-quality image will exist long before headaches start. But if you want to wait for headaches ... well that's up to you.

 

[Ted Y.]

A poor-quality image will exist long before headaches start. But if you want to wait for headaches ... well that's up to you.

Not always: I had a 7x50mm out of collimation, with a good quality image and the headaches starting after 10 seconds of use.
It depends of adaptability of each of us, right?
And probably of the type of out of collimation.

 

[WJC]

Not always: I had a 7x50mm out of collimation, with a good quality image and the headaches starting after 10 seconds of use.
It depends of adaptability of each of us, right?
And probably of the type of out of collimation.

Nobody I've ever met is that adaptable. I suggest you look for other sources. No binocular that causes a headache after "10 Seconds" can provide a "good quality Image." At least if the problem is alignment.

 

[Ted Y.]

No binocular that causes a headache after "10 Seconds" can provide a "good quality Image."

Maybe you are right. How you define the "good quality image" impossible to provide?