Sparrowhawk or Shikra - North Pakistan (1 Viewer)

[Himalaya]

The photo was taken around October 19th. I think it is a Shikra immature mainly due to breast patterns but jugular stripe missing. A friend says it is an immature Sparrowhawk.

 

[Himalaya]

could this also be an Oriental Honey Buzzard - taken in North Pakistan on 20 th October in an area where they are not even known to be resident?

 

[KGS]

Sometimes you find nisus that are quite spotted below and not as obviously barred as the vast majority. I think a pattern like the one on the first bird here would be too extreme though. Besides I see a weak mesial stripe. Juv. Shikra for me.

 

[Himalaya]

Thanks KGS

what about the Buzzard I think it is a juvenile common Buzzard...

 

[KGS]

2nd bird is definitely a juv Pernis and Oriental HB should be the only realistic option in N Pakistan, so I'm sure that is what it is. However, it's not obvious to me how I from the pic would exclude apivorus. Wing doesn't look very broad and p5 is not obviously fingered, but I guess this i OK for a juv bird. Silhuett differnces often quite obvious for adult birds, but maybe less so for juveniles. I have no real experience of juv OHB.

 

[Himalaya]

Hi KGS The bird was photographed in Gilgit which is much further north than from where OHB is recorded and also they tend to leave the places they breed within the North much earlier

 

[KGS]

A Common Buzzard shows a less coarse barring on remiges. Also note that the bars extends further towards the outer pp on Pernis. On CB median covers forms a (often obvious) pale bar, on Pernis the greater coverts are normally paler, and median and lesser more homogenous. Also check the pattern of the rectrices. In addition we have the thin, protruding and somewhat cuckoo-like head. There should be no doubts here.

 

[JANJ]

A paler version here.

JanJ

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Images of dark juvenile CHB

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=896&Bird_Image_ID=85143&p=41
http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/14_stub.php/2010/09/htm

Juvenile Common Buzzard

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nick-ransdale/8035151715/in/photostream/

Grahame

 

[Andy Adcock]

Any chance of Himalayan Buzzard here?


Andy

 

[tconzemi]

Any chance of Himalayan Buzzard here?


Andy

No clear cut OHB and Shikra

 

[JANJ]

No clear cut OHB and Shikra

Yes, agree to that.

JanJ

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

No clear cut OHB and Shikra

For me too.

 

[jalid]

I think that the Accipiter is a Eurasian Sparrowhawk, young male. First, it shows a yellow orbital ring. Also, the structure of wing pattern in these two species differs: ESA has emarginated and long fifth innermost primary and the longest spacing between the primary tips is between the tips of the fourth and the fifth primary - the tip of the sixth reaches still distinctly farther, and is well visible, like in this bird. In Shikra, the long gap is between fifth and sixth primary and seventh is only slightly longer than sixth (like in ESA, in fact) - so after the long gap in the folded wing, no primary tip reaches distincly longer. The contasting and brown ear-coverts are better for ESA and the breast pattern is not typical for either - Shikra has normally heavier blotching (but very variable). The underpart pattern of young male ESA is often quite spotty. This bird is very pale and the element of barring is very weak, but I have seen irds almost matching this in northern Europe.

 

[Himalaya]

would any one else have any opinions? the photograph was taken in October in the far north of the country - where Shikras are not recorded as breeding and Sparrowhawks are of course they may breed and could wander around. On top of that it is very close to the Indus Flyway so could be a migrant from Russia, Central Europe?

 

[rdcny]

That is a juvenile (yellow cere; pattern of tail striping; tan eyes) Oriental Honey-buzzard (note six visible primaries) - Pernis ptilorhyncus orientalis - I have an article in the July 2015 issue of BirdingAsia on aging/sexing Oriental Honey-buzzards and the different subspecies - in Asia.

Here is a juvenile OHB: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17545004

Here is a dark morph adult female - same color morph as your bird: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=16481292

The sex on your bird cannot be determined...

Robert DeCandido PhD
NYC

 

[rdcny]

The sparrowhawk is a juvenile Eurasian Sparrowhawk (A. nisus).

"I think that the Accipiter is a Eurasian Sparrowhawk, young male. First, it shows a yellow orbital ring."

Exactly! Shikra has grey oribtal (eye) ring. Also, mesial stripe is not a good character to use for ID...mesial stripes vary much with a species...and within the same sex.

Here is a juvenile male Shikra in flight (Thailand): http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=17545013

Juvenile female Shikra in the hand (Thailand): http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14410722

Juvenile Eurasian Sparrowhawk (Thailand) - see attachment

If you see the July 2014 BirdingASIA issue - I have an article about Accipiter identification in the Far East - many of the points mentioned above are discussed in that article.

 

[tconzemi]

I think that the Accipiter is a Eurasian Sparrowhawk, young male. First, it shows a yellow orbital ring. Also, the structure of wing pattern in these two species differs: ESA has emarginated and long fifth innermost primary and the longest spacing between the primary tips is between the tips of the fourth and the fifth primary - the tip of the sixth reaches still distinctly farther, and is well visible, like in this bird. In Shikra, the long gap is between fifth and sixth primary and seventh is only slightly longer than sixth (like in ESA, in fact) - so after the long gap in the folded wing, no primary tip reaches distincly longer. The contasting and brown ear-coverts are better for ESA and the breast pattern is not typical for either - Shikra has normally heavier blotching (but very variable). The underpart pattern of young male ESA is often quite spotty. This bird is very pale and the element of barring is very weak, but I have seen irds almost matching this in northern Europe.

Dear Jalid
should have looked closer, the bird just seemed odd for Eurasian Sparrowhawk, but you are obviously correct and I learned something most interesting, thanks for that

 

[KGS]

After checking a fair number of photos of juv Shikras and ESP I find that the difference in wing formula mentioned by Jalid seems consistent. There fore I agree that this should be an ESP. I also find that brids photographed far east whithin the distribution of the species maybe tend to have a more sparse barring below and also there seems to exist a tendency for more dots or arrow marks (rather than barring) down the belly on these birds. Are such differences known and/or documented?

 

[rdcny]

for IDs with raptors - go with hard characters (meristic data) - can be counted or is definite (has a yellow eye ring; has a grey eye ring)...plumage varies too much! This is a Shikra from India - doesn't look like any Shikra I am familiar with...