small finch type birds- south of france (1 Viewer)

[selkie]

I saw these birds bathing and drinking in a shady stream in a local botanic gardens [Parc Phoenix, Nice, France]

They were very small -they seemed smaller than sparrows and colouring somewhat reminiscent of collared doves on the back with a white patch near the base of the tail and a black or dark reddish brown tip [depending on the individual]

The beaks seemed to be two colours -darker on top and pale silvery colour on the bottom. Underside had an almost yellowish tinge in certain birds.

They liked being in a group and were very alert to any danger and didn't seem particularly keen on humans - unlike most of the birds in the gardens who see humans as a potential source of food

I can't see anything in my various books about birds in France that would fit these birds
These were digiscoped [ i'm just a beginner and I've never taken photos groups of birds with the scope before so apologies for the poor photos.]

thanks for any help

alison

 

[KnockerNorton]

Indian Silverbills. An exotic. Some of them look like juvs (though hard to tell), so perhaps they're breeding locally.

They are fairly common in aviaries, being imported in large numbers from S Asia.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Having sparked my interest, I found this online:

On a related note, listers (but probably few others) will be pleased to note that they now have another species to add to their West Palaearctic list. Vol. 7, No. 4 of the LPO journal Ornithos carries an announcement that Indian Silverbill, a popular cagebird, has recently been added to Category C of the official French list. This is the category for naturalised species whose populations are felt to have reached the stage of being self-supporting. Apparently at least 1000 birds are now breeding successfully in the Nice area of south-east France.

 

[Steve G]

Having sparked my interest, I found this online:

On a related note, listers (but probably few others) will be pleased to note that they now have another species to add to their West Palaearctic list. Vol. 7, No. 4 of the LPO journal Ornithos carries an announcement that Indian Silverbill, a popular cagebird, has recently been added to Category C of the official French list. This is the category for naturalised species whose populations are felt to have reached the stage of being self-supporting. Apparently at least 1000 birds are now breeding successfully in the Nice area of south-east France.

Ahhh! This explains why images were being sought for the new Photographic Handbook of the Birds of the Western Palearctic. :t:

 

[rosbifs]

If you go past the (west) end of runway at Nice there is an interesting stream with a stack of these things - had me trawling the handbooks.......

 

[KnockerNorton]

Ahhh! This explains why images were being sought for the new Photographic Handbook of the Birds of the Western Palearctic. :t:

Go to any pet shop - they're about 15 Euros a pair!

 

[Steve G]

Go to any pet shop - they're about 15 Euros a pair!

So are Budgies....yet strangely they are not to be featured in the Field Guide! :eek!:

 

[MSA]

Having sparked my interest, I found this online:

On a related note, listers (but probably few others) will be pleased to note that they now have another species to add to their West Palaearctic list. Vol. 7, No. 4 of the LPO journal Ornithos carries an announcement that Indian Silverbill, a popular cagebird, has recently been added to Category C of the official French list. This is the category for naturalised species whose populations are felt to have reached the stage of being self-supporting. Apparently at least 1000 birds are now breeding successfully in the Nice area of south-east France.

I thought they were on the Israeli list, which is in the WP?

 

[KnockerNorton]

I thought they were on the Israeli list, which is in the WP?

They do breed around the Middle East, I think, and also probably on the Canaries. There are lots of these Estrildids and allies breeding on the Canaries, and also some in Spain (Waxbills etc).

I used to breed Indian Silverbills in an aviary, and they're unobtrusive little birds. Not massively hardy, but they could stand a mild British winter no problem, though they're not too keen on the damp. The song is a very quiet warble, like the subsong of many other birds (sounding most like a Dunnock to us, probably, but much quieter). They breed easily in small weaver-type nests, but they hybridise very freely with African Silverbill, which i think are also at large in many parts around the Med. Hybrids have less white on the rump, and hints of the vermiculations seen on the coverts of African, with a slightly larger bill (Indian have a more delicate bill generally).

My point about pet shops was that it isn't really necessary to try and get pics in the wild - there are plenty of birds in aviaries/for sale that could give a very good series of photos (and also for ringers).

 

[njlarsen]

They were quite easy to see and photograph on a walk up to the old Nice Castle (I think that was the name) when I visited there.

Niels

 

[Howard King]

We are in the WP and have them breeding here in large numbers -

 

[Gentoo]

Could some of the Introduced birds be African Silverbills? They are often more common in captivity. I used to have them.

It's interesting when birds like this become established. The Spice Finch (Nutmeg Manikin) is established in San Diego near the San Diego river near my house. I just saw some juveniles last week.

 

[Steve G]

My point about pet shops was that it isn't really necessary to try and get pics in the wild - there are plenty of birds in aviaries/for sale that could give a very good series of photos (and also for ringers).

Aye but that's cheating.

I hadn't realised that they have become naturalized in the Western Palearctic & so was puzzled as to why they should appear in an upcoming West Pal field guide. The above posts explain all.

 

[BobTag]

We are in the WP

Not according to BWP you're not, and that's still the standard

They've been in good numbers in southern Isreal at least for years; I remember seeing them along the border fence between Eilat and Jordan in the mid-90's....

 

[Howard King]

Not according to BWP you're not, and that's still the standard

MUCH discussion on this matter I think you will find that BWP now considered outdated and is certainly not accepted as standard here rather prefer to follow- Roselaar, Kees (2006) The boundaries of the Palearctic region British Birds 99(12): 602-18

SEE --- http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1175039&postcount=237

FRENCHY

From British Birds Vol 99 pages 602-618. During preperation work for a forthcoming book titled " Handbook of Geographical Variation and Distribution of Palearctic Birds" by C.S. Roselarr and H. Shirihai, the authurs needed to define the Palearctic boundary, which is especially tricky in the east. The boundary in the Arabian region was revised from the BWP definition to include the whole of the peninsular, except for the mountains of the south and south-west, and the coastal plain of northerm Oman. So basically most of the potentially interesting Oriental and African origin species and the Yeman endemics were not included. This would seem to make sense to me.

It doesn't really help with regards to Iran, as the paper is not concerned with the Western Palearctic as such. However, i certainly agree that boundaries based on potentially fluid political ones do not make much sense compared to the biogeographical reasons used before. And if they can make exceptions for Russia and Kazakhstan, why bother at all? It also seems slightly bizarre that Shirihai seems to be working on two different books about the birds of the WP that are working to slightly different boundaries! No wonder the average birder is confused!!
__________________
OBC Helping to conserve Asia's birds

www.orientalbirdclub.org

 

[KnockerNorton]

I have an inkling that the Israeli/Middle East birds are natural colonisers, and not naturalized, although I could be totally wrong on that. Think I read it somewhere. Could be very difficult to know for sure though, as there are very large bird markets all over ME.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Could some of the Introduced birds be African Silverbills? .

would be very easy to tell if they were - Indian have white rumps, African have dark rumps. African are also a slightly warmer brown above, with faint barring on the wing coverts and a more chunky bill.

 

[Howard King]

I have an inkling that the Israeli/Middle East birds are natural colonisers, and not naturalized, although I could be totally wrong on that. Think I read it somewhere. Could be very difficult to know for sure though, as there are very large bird markets all over ME.

Origins of our birds are unknown they have been around for so long now - but you still find them on sale in pet shops however these could be locally caught birds we have so many.

 

[BobTag]

Not according to BWP you're not, and that's still the standard

MUCH discussion on this matter I think you will find that BWP now considered outdated and is certainly not accepted as standard here rather prefer to follow- Roselaar, Kees (2006) The boundaries of the Palearctic region British Birds 99(12): 602-18

Thank you for so politely pointing this out Howard..... "I think you'll find" we are all of course aware of this debate, hence the smilie... And yes the book refered to earlier in this thread that sparked the WP discussion does include the Arabian Pen...

No surprise you're keen on the "new" boundaries, though; want to be part of the club, eh!

 

[selkie]

Having sparked my interest, I found this online:

On a related note, listers (but probably few others) will be pleased to note that they now have another species to add to their West Palaearctic list. Vol. 7, No. 4 of the LPO journal Ornithos carries an announcement that Indian Silverbill, a popular cagebird, has recently been added to Category C of the official French list. This is the category for naturalised species whose populations are felt to have reached the stage of being self-supporting. Apparently at least 1000 birds are now breeding successfully in the Nice area of south-east France.

Thanks for the id and information, KnockerNorton.
I think I've seen these birds before in the Nice area -but this was the best sighting and only time I've managed anything remotely useful in terms of photos or close observation

thanks

Alison