San Diego California: Is it a Crow or a Raven? (1 Viewer)

[rustyw]

Hi everyone!

We have Crows in San Diego… many, many Crows. In the small wild area behind our house I estimate we have 12 to 18 at any given moment (10 months ago we had over 60 but that’s another story). They have crowded out almost all of the other birds but over the last 10 months many have returned (that other story again) including two Hawks (at least I think they’re Hawks). If I'm right, one is a Red Tail Hawk. The huge white one I don't know but will post images in another post.

I think a couple of very large ‘Crows’ are actually Ravens. However a lady from animal control who came out to get a coyote out of our back yard assured me that there were no Ravens this far into the city. Below is a link to some film I took from our back yard – I wasn’t using a tripod that day so its not the best but there are some moments of clarity. If I’ve identified the larger bird correctly it is a Red Tail Hawk. The other bird… well that’s were my interest lies.

I know some things about Ravens and Crows from my Internet research:
*Ravens have a wedged tail as opposed to a Crow’s rounded tail;
*Ravens are larger then Crows;
*You can see through a Raven’s wings but not a Crows;
*Crows only soar for only a few seconds - Ravens, like Hawks, can soar for a long time;
* **Ravens do mid-flight summersaults, Crows don’t;
Crows flock together, Ravens are loners;
A Raven has a larger beak;
A Raven has a fuzzy area on its throat;

Both Ravens and Crows are very intelligent but Ravens were offered up by scientists a year ago as the second most intelligent species on the planet tied with the Great Ape and Dolphins (I love telling people that).

If I am wrong about any of this please correct me -- I’ll dig up the Internet source if I can.

* Keep these points in mind as you watch the video.
** I'm not entirely sure what a 'mid-flight summersault' is.

So what is pestering the Red Tail Hawk – a Crow or a Raven? Cast your vote.

http://www.virtualmediastudios.com/RavenOrCrow.wmv

Thanks,
Rusty

 

[bitterntwisted]

Yes, the bird in the video is a Raven - the tail shape is probably the best distinguishing feature.

Graham

PS - The distinguishing features you found are at least mostly true most of the time:

*Ravens have a wedged tail as opposed to a Crow’s rounded tail; - TRUE
*Ravens are larger then Crows; - TRUE, but size difference varies depending on the local crow species and the local Raven subspecies
*You can see through a Raven’s wings but not a Crows; - not sure about this one - Raven's wingtips are more fingered and ragged, which is what they mean, I guess
*Crows only soar for only a few seconds - Ravens, like Hawks, can soar for a long time; - Largely true, but never say never about bird behaviour.
* **Ravens do mid-flight summersaults, Crows don’t; - Largely true - Ravens are much the more acrobatic flyers and tumble in the sky very frequently.
Crows flock together, Ravens are loners; - Ravens are often seen in pairs and family groups but only very rarely in larger flocks. But young birds without territories may gather in large roosts.
A Raven has a larger beak; - TRUE
A Raven has a fuzzy area on its throat; _ TRUE, and a distinctly projecting neck and head in flight.

 

[rustyw]

Graham,

I'm new to this forum and I now see that this was probably the wrong place for this post.

Thanks for the conformation. I was almost sure they were. I assume I got the Hawk right... when you can see the top of the tail it is red so... I'm guessing Red Tail Hawk. I think I have better pictures and/or video of the Hawk.

I forgot to mention that there are two of the larger Crows -- or Ravens (all Ravens are Crows as I understand it) and the pair of them are almost always together. Do Ravens mix it up a lot with Crows? It is hard to tell but, although they never seem to join in with the group of Crows (about a dozen these days... is it called an 'unkindness' of Crows?) when they take to the air, sometimes they appear like they are almost leading the Crows. Now that I'm surer that these large black birds are Ravens I can say that they imitate the Kaaa Kaaa of the Crows but it seems deeper, throatier and I think a lot of the bird sounds we hear come from the Ravens.

Cheers,
Rusty

 

[bitterntwisted]

Hi Rusty,

Yes, the Hawk is a Red-tailed.

Everything you descibe confirms you have a pair of Ravens hanging about.

In my experience, they associate only very loosely with other crow species (they are a kind of crow), but that may vary slightly geographically. Ravens are one of the most widely distributed species and the crows they would interact with here (Carrion, Hooded and Rook) are different to the crows they would interact with in the US (American, Northwestern)

The calls are great. Ravens have a much greater range than our Carrion Crows, including some which are un-crow like - more high-pitched, almost tuneful calls.

Graham

PS - ID Q&A is probably a better subforum for this thread but you'd get the same answer. (I hope!)

 

[Himalaya]

amazing video!

i love the interaction between the 2 species. that raven looks so much smaller than a red tail...i wonder if red tails are able to prey on ravens?

 

[Jim M.]

I pretty much agree with everything Graham says in his very thorough responses. The call of a raven is frequently described as a "croak", by the way.

that raven looks so much smaller than a red tail...i wonder if red tails are able to prey on ravens?

It is my understanding that at least some of the ravens in California belong to a subspecies that is smaller than the ravens found in most of northern and eastern North America. Ravens elsewhere in North America can be as big as a Red-tailed Hawk. As for seeing them in the city, Ravens are expanding their range in the Northeast. Perhaps the same thing is happening in California.