Purple finch? Colorado (1 Viewer)

[DDolan1075]

I took this picture in September last year in Colorado. Origninally, I thought that it was a Pine Siskin. Now I think that it is a Finch, and some have said that it could be a Purple Finch. unfortunately, they are not common there at that time accoring to eBird. Can you help me?

 

[MLoyko]

It looks like a female type purple finch but what about the Cassin's finch possibility, do they look like that and are they common in Colorado? Gettysburg PA is the farthest west I've been so I wouldn't know.

-Matt

 

[jthoppes]

Cassin's is much more common than Purple in Colorado.

 

[fugl]

I would say Cassin's on the basis of the bill (long with straight culmen) & crisply streaked underparts.

 

[lmans66]

Doesn't a Cassin's have a clear breast...no markings? I don't have my Kaufmans book right around me or else I would look.... ??

 

[fugl]

Doesn't a Cassin's have a clear breast...no markings? I don't have my Kaufmans book right around me or else I would look.... ??

The male yes, but not the female which is streaked below like the females of the House & Purple finches.

 

[DDolan1075]

The eBird possibilities are as follows:
Brown-capped Rosy-Finch Pine Grosbeak Cassin's Finch
House Finch Red Crossbill Pine Siskin
Lesser Goldfinch American Goldfinch Evening Grosbeak

 

[Jim M.]

Agree on Cassin's Finch for the reasons stated. Purple Finch would be a vagrant in Colorado.

Best,
Jim

 

[DDolan1075]

I have been told by people that are pretty good that they think that this is a Purple finch female and that I ought to send the picture when I put it on eBird. To quote:\

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/finchIDtable.html

(Ya can lead a guy to info, but will he look at it? )

Based on the differentiatiing characteristics mentioned on the above page (females at the bottom) and the basically same ones mentioned in the big Sibley, your finch is an Eastern variety of Purple Finch. The facial pattern is far too bold for a female Cassin' s -- it's characteristic of a female Purple. The breast streaks are short and bolder than the finer streaks on a Cassin's, too. You got a rarity for the area, but that's what it looks like you did get. Send the Ebird checker the photo to prove it.

 

[Jim M.]

I have been told by people that are pretty good that they think that this is a Purple finch female and that I ought to send the picture when I put it on eBird. To quote:\

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/finchIDtable.html

(Ya can lead a guy to info, but will he look at it? )

Based on the differentiatiing characteristics mentioned on the above page (females at the bottom) and the basically same ones mentioned in the big Sibley, your finch is an Eastern variety of Purple Finch. The facial pattern is far too bold for a female Cassin' s -- it's characteristic of a female Purple. The breast streaks are short and bolder than the finer streaks on a Cassin's, too. You got a rarity for the area, but that's what it looks like you did get. Send the Ebird checker the photo to prove it.

I will admit I have limited experience with Cassin's Finch, but I am not yet convinced (though I admit it is possible it may be a Purple Finch). Here are some female-type Cassin's that have a face pattern that looks to be as bold as the subject bird: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3322/3220730161_8182b17630.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RuJ4_PdWs3g/R9txQ_fDj5I/AAAAAAAABTA/gJDCbJnNbSY/s400/Cassin%27sFinch-a1-home-CC,CO.jpg

Also, Pete Dunne notes regarding female Cassin's Finch that they: "are more finely and crisply streaked both above and (particularly) below — much more Siskinlike" than Purple Finch. That description seems to fit the subject bird (note that you originally thought it might be a Siskin). And the streaks on the subject bird are clearly crisper than those on this Purple Finch: http://www.kvbirdclub.org/Misc Photos/Donnie Good/PurpleFinchFemale1.jpg

I would want to see more photos or stronger evidence before calling an out of range bird.

(By the way, I'm always suspicious of people who use intensifiers when describing a close call. One might reasonably argue that the face pattern is too bold for Cassin's, but to suggest that it is "far too bold" is ridiculous.)

Best,
Jim

 

[MLoyko]

I agree with the breast markings looking like a siskin's (in-fact before opening the thumbnail I thought siskin just from the markings I could see). That matched with the information Jim gives says Cassin's to me

 

[Microtus]

Based on the fine underparts streaking, the longer bill, and the location, I believe this bird is a female Cassin's Finch. Two years ago I saw a Cassin's Finch female in Nevada that had rather prominent pale stripes on the face as this bird does.

 

[Microtus]

On the vent of your bird you can see one brown streak, a Cassin's character according to your link.

Here's a Cassin's Finch pair photographed by Bill Schmoker in Colorado: http://schmoker.org/BirdPics/Photos/Finches/CAFIpair.jpg. The female has noticeable white stripes on the head. Here is a photo of two females from the same source: http://schmoker.org/BirdPics/Photos/Finches/CAFIfem.jpg. These females also have bold facial patterns.

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi All,

In my opinion, this bird looks just fine for Cassin's. The streaking looks crisp to me, the culmen looks long and straight-ish. Also, the supercillium is relatively poorly marked compared with most Purples. And finally, there is indeed a dark shaft streak present on one undertail covert, which while not completely diagnostic, is supportive of Cassin's.

Chris

 

[DDolan1075]

Thank you all for your help on this. I have one side question for you. Do you know if these birds hybridize? Not trying to give an excuse, but it could explain the inconsistencies. Just thinking...

 

[The Falcon]

Thank you all for your help on this. I have one side question for you. Do you know if these birds hybridize? Not trying to give an excuse, but it could explain the inconsistencies. Just thinking...

I am unaware of any hybrids between Purple and Cassin's Finch, but if they existed they would be very difficult to find.

I agree with all those who identified this bird as a Cassin's Finch for the reason's already stated.

 

[fugl]

Thank you all for your help on this. I have one side question for you. Do you know if these birds hybridize? Not trying to give an excuse, but it could explain the inconsistencies. Just thinking...

Yes, evidently, they might. The following is from BNA-online, an authoritative source (http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/208/articles/systematics)

”Hybridization may occur but requires further study. . . .Evidence of intermediate forms between Purple Finch and other congeners suggests possible hybridization. Intermediate forms between Cassin’s Finch and Purple Finch reported in S. Carolina (Wayne 1924) and in the Cascade Mtns. of Washington (R. Peffer pers. comm.). Report of a male House Finch consorting with a female Purple Finch and her fledglings in Allegheny Co., NY (North American Nest Record Card [NRCP] data), and observation of an intermediate morph between a Purple Finch and a House Finch (voice similar in tonal quality but not pattern to House Finch; red coloration in areas typical of House Finch, but rosier and lacking the orange hues typical of House Finch; underparts white and lacking streaks, as is typical of Purple Finch) in Philadelphia, PA (K. Russell pers. comm.)".

 

[Chris Benesh]

Thank you all for your help on this. I have one side question for you. Do you know if these birds hybridize? Not trying to give an excuse, but it could explain the inconsistencies. Just thinking...

Without references at hand, I can't really answer your question. I think that the two are allopatric, but come close in some areas. More importantly, the only inconsistencies to the image above are in the opinions that you've received thus far. I think that if you googled a bunch of images of Cassin's and Purple finches, you would find that the bird looks just fine for Cassin's (and is arguably duller faced and more crisply streaked than most eastern Purples). This is admittedly a difficult group to identify, but I think that there are several features that are very suggestive of Cassin's.

Chris

 

[DDolan1075]

Thank you all for your continued responses. I think that I've got it.