ProAves? (1 Viewer)

[jimforjim]

We were pretty taken aback with the steep price increases at the ProAves lodges that have been put in place in the past couple of years. According to the Birdwatching in Colombia book, the price at the two lodges we visited was $65/person as of 2013, but we paid $225 for two people per night, and I know that El Dorado is now $290 for two per night. Yikes! That's a big increase, particularly considering the dollar's strength against the peso. Does anybody know why they've jacked up their prices? Once we hit retirement, these lodges won't be an option anymore...

 

[Robert_Scanlon]

Perhaps the demand has gone up significantly since lots of wealthy westerners are visiting the country now it's perceived as being much safer than before.

At least the money goes to a good cause.

 

[cajanuma]

It's still exceptionally expensive compared with normal travel costs in Colombia, and budget birders should know that there are far cheaper alternatives to most of these sites.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

I looked into going to Colombia, but the prices at Proaves lodges put me off. I guess they can make the same amount of money by having less people.

 

[cajanuma]

Colombia is actually quite cheap now with the weak peso, and parts of it that aren't yet on the standard birding circuits - like Puerto Inirida in the Amazon, much of southern Colombia, or Bahia Solano - can be be birded quite cheaply, the birding is fantastic, and there is much scope for discovery. Even on the standard birding circuits, the ProAves lodges really stand out for their high prices. I visited many of them in 2012 and 2013 and I must say I had a wonderful time (the local staff in particular were great), but back then the cost for a single person was around USD55/day with all meals at most of them - still more expensive than the other places we stayed, but all in all a fair deal. USD 110-140/night seems rather excessive, but again there are much cheaper alternatives to most of the lodges at sites where the species composition, endemics included, are very similar.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I've been looking at this too, includes $50 per day 'conservation fee' but still pricey. Even more so if you use a 4x4 through pro Aves to get there!

What are the daily guiding fees?


Andy

 

[Robert_Scanlon]

@ Andy, there are no guiding fees as such, not unless you contract a specific birding guide. In my experience I found that at all of the reserves I stayed at, the forest guard was willing to show me the trails and knew a little bit about the main birds and that was a help. At some of them, they were willing to go with me and help me look for them. "But" only if they weren't busy with other things,....which was fair enough. I actually greatly enjoyed my trip around 6 of the Pro-aves reserves in 2011, but if the prices have really gone up that much then that does become a factor for the independent traveler looking to eke out resources.

On the other hand, you have to look at it from Pro-aves point of view, especially when guided tour groups turn up at their reserves paying $200-300 per head per day to their tour company, of which a small proportion ultimately goes to conservation / purchase of new land to protect endangered species.

 

[davholla]

I looked into going to Colombia, but the prices at Proaves lodges put me off. I guess they can make the same amount of money by having less people.

There are other places that you can visit. Saying that I am not sure what is the cheap alternative to El Dorado. I went there in 2014 and it was nice but it was expensive about 100+ USD per day and the electricity didn't work. It was also almost empty so the price could have been better.
My wife is from Colombia and I have visited it 10 times, it is a nice place but the tourism is missing lots of things,most of which are not because of money but because of poor attitude.
For example the best reserve I have ever visited in terms of value for money is Santuario de Otun (more for insects than birds). However the instructions they give on their website on how to get there, could get you killed. I emailed them to tell this about 4 months ago and they still have not changed it, which bearing in mind that someone could die is pretty poor.
El Dorado is nice but expensive and uncomfortable.

 

[Peter C.]

It is interesting to read others' perspectives on the Proaves network and El Dorado lodge in particular.

The S.O. (She Who Must Be Obeyed) and I spent a week in Colombia in Feb. 2015. We tried to get into El Dorado for three nights, despite the price, but found it was completely booked! I feel this was a considerable loss - we ended up staying in Minca (just down the hill, but hours away on that g-d vile road) at a much cheaper place, but that was not very nice at all. We just had one morning's excursion up to El Dorado, with a jeep and driver (for a truly horrendous sum of money) which was good, but left us wanting more.

Obviously, I don't know what it is like to stay there, but I found the lodge building itself very well kept and comfortable, and they keep a very good cook there - the lunch (which was included in the entrance fee, you have to pay $50 USD to use the trails) was the best meal I had all week. There was a kind of rustic chicken soup with herbs that I really wish I coud have again...

But it's all about the birds, of course - which were fantastic, and (mostly) quite easy to find from the trail system, or indeed, from patio out back! (e.g. Santa Marta Brush-finch foraging on the stairs as we went down to look at the hummingbird feeders.) Unfortunately for us, certain of the Santa Marta endemics are only found higher up than the lodge itself, and so you need to go on an additional excursion for them. This includes a couple of the warblers, which made me very sad I hadn't gotten in there...

While we were in Minca, though, I heard about another lodge that is operating up the road a bit from the El Dorado "turn off", so that might be a potential competitor. Don't remember the name of this lodge, at the moment.

 

[jorge_uli]

I hear reliably that a complete and comprensive research into Proaves will to be published in 2016, researching finances, alliances, practices and many former employee testimony of this organisation. I do not understand if it will explain why are the price rises, but it is probably best not to do speculation but to wait until it is published and read it.

 

[jimforjim]

Hi all,
Thanks for all of the input. The last comment about a report coming out is very interesting, and if anybody knows any more about that, or where to find it once it's published, it would be great to hear about it.

As others have said, it's very possible to bird Colombia inexpensively and have a great time; the ProAves lodges aren't the only option by a long shot! We stayed at a number of other locations during our trip that were a lot more reasonably priced, e.g. Otun Quimbaya, Montezuma Road and others.
Cheers! Jim

 

[njlarsen]

I hear reliably that a complete and comprensive research into Proaves will to be published in 2016, researching finances, alliances, practices and many former employee testimony of this organisation. I do not understand if it will explain why are the price rises, but it is probably best not to do speculation but to wait until it is published and read it.

I do not hope that is part of the infighting that has been going on between factions of Colombian ornithology.

Niels

 

[temmie]

Two curves down the El Dorado lodge, you can sleep cheap at Palo Alto Mountain hostel:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...0775628,1119m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
You will have to walk a bit more at 3.30AM to get to the top for the parakeets, but for those fit and not wanting all the luxury, this is an option.

Same goes for most other places, except maybe for Urrao and Anori, where I found the lodge to be well-located and I saw no alternatives at that time (2011). I also reckon that cerulean warbler reserve is an area that is hard to find a good alternative.

 

[davholla]

Do you have their website?

 

[temmie]

I doubt they have a website, but I wonder if this would be fully booked at any time.
if you google 'palo alto mountain hostel', you will find some photos.

 

[davholla]

I think if you have facebook you can contact them via https://www.facebook.com/FidelTravels (Spanish would be better as IIRC from 2014 Fidel does not speak English)

 

[jimforjim]

That's a great link, Dave. It looks like he does have his own website as well, and email/phone #s. On this last trip we made heavy use of Whatsapp, which was incredibly useful for contacting people such as Leopoldina at Montezuma Lodge. It seems like it's pretty heavily used, so perhaps Sr. Fidel is on it as well. For those of us who have difficulty understanding Spanish on the phone, it's much easier to text your conversation, and switch your phone to Spanish so it autocorrects it!

 

[davholla]

By the way as someone married to a Colombian I can confirm that whatsapp is the best way to communicate with Colombians, sadly emails (which can be a lot easier if you don't like typing a lot on your smart phone) are now passe.

 

[Feathered and Free]

I will be in Colombia next month and have booked El Dorado online so that part is sorted. I also booked a non-Proaves reserve - Rio Blanco online. I am having trouble getting things sorted for a couple other places.

Yellow-eared Parrot reserve - can we (me & husband) just show up, pay a fee and go in? I can't seem to find a guide who isn't already booked with some tour group.

Fuertes Parrots - I can see on eBird that they have been spotted near Santa Rosa de Cabal & Periera but can't find a guide based in either of those towns. How can I find one? I see "Finca de Cortaderal" coming up as a hotspot but not sure how to get there as the Google map is unclear in that area.

 

[cajanuma]

For the Yellow-eared Parrot, you don't actually need to go into the reserve to see them as they are best seen from the road above Jardin itself, so no need for paying a fee or asking permission.

For the Fuertes's Parrot, I replied on the other thread