Newbie looking for some real world reviews/input (1 Viewer)

[Jack89]

Hello,
I’m looking to buy my first scope after coming from photography, sports and long exposure mainly, (I see it as ‘slowing down’ and just enjoying the act of bird watching) and I was wondering what would be a good scope to have.
I haven’t really set a budget but nothing mega expensive.
I found a top ten for the best spotting scopes for bird watching and by their review the Hawke Nature-Trek 20-60x80 spotting scope came out as exceptional.
I click the link and notice it’s only £329. Now I’m not dismissing that that is still a good chunk of money but surely I’m missing something?

If anyone can recommend a good all rounder (on the move, viewing out to sea, sitting in a hide etc) I would be very grateful.

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

 

[wllmspd]

I have an Opticron 60MM4 and it’s a nice lightweight option with pretty good optics. If you want to do lots of walking about then a lighter model will be more friendly. (There are a couple of others I t he group I go birding with, the other common model being the 65mm Swarovski ATS) If you’re staying put and have big vistas then an 80mm might be a better option. I assume you’ve got some decent tripods and video heads already. I find the “10 best” videos rarely mirror the findings of groups like these and seem to be full of affiliate links.

Spend some time going back through forum posts and see if you can find a shop/bird reserve where they sell scopes, so you can compare ergonomics, fields of view etc

Peter

 

[Kits]

Welcome to Birdforum. I hope you enjoy your visits.

 

[Jack89]

I have an Opticron 60MM4 and it’s a nice lightweight option with pretty good optics. If you want to do lots of walking about then a lighter model will be more friendly. (There are a couple of others I t he group I go birding with, the other common model being the 65mm Swarovski ATS) If you’re staying put and have big vistas then an 80mm might be a better option. I assume you’ve got some decent tripods and video heads already. I find the “10 best” videos rarely mirror the findings of groups like these and seem to be full of affiliate links.

Spend some time going back through forum posts and see if you can find a shop/bird reserve where they sell scopes, so you can compare ergonomics, fields of view etc

Peter

I’m not too worried about weight as such after lugging around several bodies and lens but I do fear that anything Swarovski is slightly over what I’d like to pay (for my first scope)

A couple of questions off the back of your answer if it’s ok, I’d rather have an answer from someone over google…

The different sizes, 60, 65 and 80. What is the difference?

Is there a preference between angled or straight scopes? Obviously personal preference is a big factor but just wondering if there’s and advantage to one or the other.

I live near the original Wex photographic shop so I will pop in there soon, if they aren’t any good/very helpful then I will go back through the posts

Thank you.

 

[Mono]

The 60, 65, 80 is the front objective in mm. The bigger it is the more light the scope lets in. Larger objectives will give you better images in lower light conditions and will allow you to better use higher magnifications. The down side of larger objectives is size, weight and cost.

Most birders prefer an angled scope, it allows for a variation in scope position. Looking through an angled scope that is lower down than ideal is much easier than looking through a similarly low straight scope. If you are using hides or looking through cover you can't always have the scope at standing (or sitting) eye level. Straight scopes do make it easier to point at a known target, but to my mind that isn't enough of a benefit.

There are various optics retailers that will do demonstration days at nature reserves or are actually based at a reserve. If you can get to one of those it will let you use the scope in real world conditions, something that is more critical for scopes than binoculars.

 

[wllmspd]

Bigger means you can reach higher magnification with the image brightness staying the same. Of course heat haze can limit the power you can achieve sometimes. People often reckon 30-50x as a good range.
All the people I go with use angled, though some claim straight thru is easier to find things. However you need a taller tripod and it’s harder to share the view. Google “cable tie finder”.. several posts here, I use it and can get on target very quickly. Most the swaro I see are the older ATS series.

Peter

 

[delia todd]

Hi Jack and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators.

The different sizes, 60, 65 and 80. What is the difference?

There is quite a difference I found. There's more field of view, so less panning and scrolling, making it easier to see something coming in and being able to follow it. Downside, of course, is extra weight.

Straight v angled: as you say, very much personal preference. But if you're with friends of different heights, it's much easier to share the view with an angled scope. With a straight scope, your tripod will be set to your height, so the eyepiece is at your eye level. If you are tall, a short pal will have to stand on tip-toe or you need to reduce the height of the tripod.

You don't say where you are (I've heard good reports of WEX, but don't know where their original shop is). However, many of the larger nature reserves have a shop and are usually very happy for you to try them out during your visit. You don't say where you are, but here's a link to In Focus who have shops on some reserves. In Focus Shops | Optics for birdwatchers and naturalists I've had good advice from them.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

 

[Jinac]

I'm totally noob but I agree and I support the fact that the internet "top 10 etc." aren't reliable and only guided by money and affiliation (for all domains)
For the straight or v angle, both have advantages and disadvantages, straight are most confortable to "aim down" and easier to target and v angle are more confortable to "aim up" (stars, moon, raptors) and easy to share.

Brands are models depends as your bank account as your preference...Kowa, Nikon, Swaro,
Opticron, Vortex...good research !

 

[Jack89]

Hi Jack and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators.


There is quite a difference I found. There's more field of view, so less panning and scrolling, making it easier to see something coming in and being able to follow it. Downside, of course, is extra weight.

Straight v angled: as you say, very much personal preference. But if you're with friends of different heights, it's much easier to share the view with an angled scope. With a straight scope, your tripod will be set to your height, so the eyepiece is at your eye level. If you are tall, a short pal will have to stand on tip-toe or you need to reduce the height of the tripod.

You don't say where you are (I've heard good reports of WEX, but don't know where their original shop is). However, many of the larger nature reserves have a shop and are usually very happy for you to try them out during your visit. You don't say where you are, but here's a link to In Focus who have shops on some reserves. In Focus Shops | Optics for birdwatchers and naturalists I've had good advice from them.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

Hello and thank you
I’m in Norwich so Rutland is my closest. The website is good with the different options, so I may be persuaded to take a trip out! I do like that it’s a dedicated website, rather than Wex being more photographically motivated.

 

[has530]

I too think angled is better for all around birding. Especially if you are going to look up into trees it becomes an ergonomic nightmare getting a straight scope above your head. It also allows you to have a shorter, cheaper, more stable tripod as you can look down into it without the need to raise up to eye level.

Along with what others have mentions about the objective diameter I will add a few thoughts. Most spotting scopes are around f/6 so more light gathering of a bigger objective also means a longer focal length (and thus magnification) for a given eyepiece focal length. Since most use an eyepiece that is about 8-24mm this comes out to about 15-45x for a 65mm scope and 20-60 on an 80mm scope. I find that the extra low magnification is useful far more often than high magnification. I have a Kowa 883 with the 25-60x eyepiece and at least half the time I am just using it on 25x, the lowest it has. I rarely go over 50x as the seeing rarely merits it so I don't think the the extra magnification (60x vs 45x) buys you all that much.

Additionally, smaller scopes in my experience tend to have better optical quality than their larger counterparts. There is a physical reason for this you can read about here, but if you'd like you can just take my word for it that among the smattering of sub-$700 spotting scopes I have had the 80mm+ ones have pretty much universally been the poorest performers while some 65mm ones have been actually very good. Good enough that I have no problem saying that my $200 65mm Chinese made spotting scope with a pentax eyepiece (which to be pair cost more than the scope itself) outperforms a not-so-great sample of a Swarovski spotting scope a friend of mine has (and enjoys so I keep my mouth shut).

 

[dipped]

Hello and thank you
I’m in Norwich so Rutland is my closest. The website is good with the different options, so I may be persuaded to take a trip out! I do like that it’s a dedicated website, rather than Wex being more photographically motivated.

What about Cleyspy in Glandford if you want to try scopes out? A lot nearer than Rutland.

 

[delia todd]

Hello and thank you
I’m in Norwich so Rutland is my closest. The website is good with the different options, so I may be persuaded to take a trip out! I do like that it’s a dedicated website, rather than Wex being more photographically motivated.

Before you go off to Rutland (not stopping you going to this excellent reserve though!) You have two good options in Norfolk.

Cley Spy at Cley: Buy Binoculars & Telescopes Online - Cley Spy you'll get very good service there.

and

Titchwell RSPB reserve have (or had when I was last there) a decent shop too, being the premier reserve in the area. This is a link to our Opus article for the reserve: Titchwell Marsh - BirdForum Opus. There's a link at the bottom for the reserve's web page.

 

[jring]

Hi Jack,

first of all, welcome to BF!

My advice for you is the following:

- you want a scope with an ED element in the objective because of... physics.... If that is not an option, you want a fixed wide angle EP of around 30x magnification as that works best with plain glass achromats.

- buying used is a good way to get a nicer scope inside a fixed budget... but make sure you can either test before buying or buy from a reputable online store with a no questions asked return policy... ebay does NOT count...

- sample variation in scope objectives (mainly) does exist and we have seen a few alpha lemons over here... so make sure you buy exactly the scope you tested and liked... bonus points for getting a discount for taking a demo unit...

The minimum requirement for an ED scope would be to deliver a crisp image with an easy to find point of best focus (as opposed to wide range of least blurriness) at its maximum magnification... in good seeing, so no heat haze. A cool, overcast morning is good... late night, if that is an option...
If you want to get a real cherry, learn to star test... either at night or with a diy artificial star...

Joachim

 

[Hermann]

q

Along with what others have mentions about the objective diameter I will add a few thoughts. Most spotting scopes are around f/6 so more light gathering of a bigger objective also means a longer focal length (and thus magnification) for a given eyepiece focal length. Since most use an eyepiece that is about 8-24mm this comes out to about 15-45x for a 65mm scope and 20-60 on an 80mm scope. I find that the extra low magnification is useful far more often than high magnification. I have a Kowa 883 with the 25-60x eyepiece and at least half the time I am just using it on 25x, the lowest it has. I rarely go over 50x as the seeing rarely merits it so I don't the the extra magnification (60x vs 45x) buys you all that much.

Well, sure, most people use lowish magnifications most of the time. However, sometimes you need high magnifications to clinch an ID. And in such situations it's nice to have high magnifications available. I regularly (albeit rarely) use 60x on my EDIIIA and 75x on my ED82 if the seeing allows such high magnifications.

Hermann

 

[has530]

if the seeing allows such high magnifications.

That there is my problem. I almost exclusively use a scope for shorebirds which beholdens me to the tides. This means it is often not first thing in the morning and it gets pretty warm so any magnification past 30-40x is empty. For those in cooler climates however higher magnification may be more useful, I just have not had that experience. I do however somewhat regularly push it past 100x for astronomy though and it handles it fine.

 

[Jack89]

What about Cleyspy in Glandford if you want to try scopes out? A lot nearer than Rutland.

I found this website a few minutes before coming back to here! Looks a good place to visit for sure and as you say a lot closer to me

 

[Jack89]

Hi Jack,

first of all, welcome to BF!

My advice for you is the following:

- you want a scope with an ED element in the objective because of... physics.... If that is not an option, you want a fixed wide angle EP of around 30x magnification as that works best with plain glass achromats.

- buying used is a good way to get a nicer scope inside a fixed budget... but make sure you can either test before buying or buy from a reputable online store with a no questions asked return policy... ebay does NOT count...

- sample variation in scope objectives (mainly) does exist and we have seen a few alpha lemons over here... so make sure you buy exactly the scope you tested and liked... bonus points for getting a discount for taking a demo unit...

The minimum requirement for an ED scope would be to deliver a crisp image with an easy to find point of best focus (as opposed to wide range of least blurriness) at its maximum magnification... in good seeing, so no heat haze. A cool, overcast morning is good... late night, if that is an option...
If you want to get a real cherry, learn to star test... either at night or with a diy artificial star...

Joachim

Hawke Endurance ED 15-45x60 Compact Spotting Scope | Buy Online at CleySpy

The quality Hawke Endurance ED 15-45x60 Compact Spotting Scope is available from CleySpy with a wide range of accessories (other filter)- buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

As a gauge for myself, would this be considered half decent?

I would never buy from eBay for anything like this, it makes me shudder thinking people would consider buying from eBay

 

[jring]

Hi,

not so many comments on Hawke on here... never have used one personally...

I'd probably go full size used... and get some used CF legs and a 500AH head for the rest... and maybe a mulepack...

Second hand cameras, camera part exchange, digital cameras UK, used cameras, photographic shops, England

The London Camera Exchange supplies second hand cameras, new cameras, digital cameras and other camera equipment and provides a camera part exchange in photographic shops all over England, UK.

www.lcegroup.co.uk

Joachim

 

[Jack89]

Opticron MM3 80 GA ED/45 with MM3 Eyepiece | Clifton Cameras

What about this?

Seems to fairly well rounded with the option for a better eye piece, while not breaking the bank for my first.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

This is a tried and tested option, with good customer service (from both LCE and Opticron) should you need it.
A decent 60mm scope (like this) is pretty ideal as a first option, you can always buy a larger (80mm +) high end scope later, and then you still have a very good scope for travel/occasional use.